RZ67 lever not stopping! It moves freely after frame advance, can't fire shot! Broke?

moodlover · May 19, 2015

First time shooting with this thing after buying it on eBay and I feel like I was scammed. The rz67s lever does not lock after advancing the film and can keep being pushed, so I can't fire a shot as a result. Sometimes it gets to frame 2 or even frame 9 then this happens. The tension is lessened significantly as if it lost control of the winder, what's going on?!?!

Video proof here: http://tinypic.com/player.php?v=29w5stx>&s=8#.VVrloqYfk5l

sir_mamiya · May 19, 2015

Did the seller offer a 14 day return? I would send it back and recoup your loss. Or contact the seller to work something out. Especially if it was listed as a working camera.

moodlover · May 19, 2015

Oh man, are you sure theres nothing else I can do? I'm way beyond the return date. There's no way to tell if it's the body or the back that's the problem and replace them?

When I remove the film the lever and the knob at the top of the back spin fine, but when I put the film in they don't work in unison (as in the lever doesnt lock when it should).

John Koehrer · May 19, 2015

So the question is. Is it the back or the body?

Is the back loose on the body?
Simple check would be to put pressure on the back while you cock the camera. Obviously with film in it.
Use one of the spoiled rolls to check it..

moodlover · May 19, 2015

The back is not loose, I've reconnected it about 10 times very carefully and with enough pressure to make sure everything is connecting well.

John Koehrer · May 19, 2015

moodlover said:
The back is not loose, I've reconnected it about 10 times very carefully and with enough pressure to make sure everything is connecting well.

Nuts!
I'm guessing that you don't have another back to check a different combination, right?.

Did the seller give a warrantee or was it a private seller?

Wallendo · May 19, 2015

I had similar issues with a m645 1000s. I fixed it by taking off the film holder and looking at the gears inside the camera - there was a small piece of cardboard caught up in the gears, and when I removed it, the problem seems to have stopped. I don't know if that is possible with your camera, but it wouldn't hurt to look.

I've read that a possible work-around when this happens is to set the switch to multiple exposure mode and take a picture - I haven't tried that and don't know if it would work on your camera.

moodlover · May 19, 2015

John Koehrer said:
Nuts!
I'm guessing that you don't have another back to check a different combination, right?.

Did the seller give a warrantee or was it a private seller?

I dont but im going to take it to a camera shop right now to see what they say. I paid $700 for a "mint" condition RZ67 and its very beautiful, but to have this issue happen to me mid-roll mid-shoot was devastating, it totally ruined the energy and made me nearly depressed afterwards seller gave no warranty, was a guy from eBay who had it sitting in his closet after his friend gave it to him (according to the listing description). I learned my lesson, NEVER buy from someone who is not an expert and cant confirm the condition of the camera beyond it's physical appearance.

Wallendo said:
I had similar issues with a m645 1000s. I fixed it by taking off the film holder and looking at the gears inside the camera - there was a small piece of cardboard caught up in the gears, and when I removed it, the problem seems to have stopped. I don't know if that is possible with your camera, but it wouldn't hurt to look.

I've read that a possible work-around when this happens is to set the switch to multiple exposure mode and take a picture - I haven't tried that and don't know if it would work on your camera.

Wish I could do this but no gears are visible when I take off the film back, the camera is engineered like a tank and would need a trained engineer to open it up. I tried multiple exposure mode but it doesnt fire the shot because it thinks the shutter is not cocked (though in the video you can clearly see me doing the motion that would cock the shutter, over and over).

Mainecoonmaniac · May 19, 2015

Is the connecting drive with the film back and the camera engaged? I've never seen this happen with my RZ.

k.hendrik · May 19, 2015

wild guess: put on M>remove back>cock lever> are both connecting drives(right side) move ?fire> lens opens ?
back $ 50,00 at KEH

M Carter · May 19, 2015

moodlover said:
I learned my lesson, NEVER buy from someone who is not an expert and cant confirm the condition of the camera beyond it's physical appearance.

I strongly suspect that some ebay auctions that state "Super clean, mint, sold as-is with no returns because I can't test it / don't have film /don't have a darkroom / don't know how it works" are people who know damn well it's busted. Not all, maybe just a few, but it's a reasonable thing to claim in the digital age, and a way for people to get higher crap-shoot dollars out of broken gear.

If a seller can't state specifically what's wrong or says they can't test it, I check their feedback and other auctions - often it's clear they're a photo dealer. I message to see how quickly they respond, ask them to check specific things. If it's an absolute steal (almost bought a pro-s body with just the focus screen for $45, probably parts in there worth having) I might take a chance. If someone is happy to crank a knob, describe a shutter click, shine a flashlight in a lens and reply back, I figure they're at least trying to give me the best idea of the gear possible. Many sellers really go the extra mile when asked. Many never answer but heck, a Minolta rangefinder, untested, for ten bucks - I bought one and got it running just fine. Sweet little carry-around camera.

I've gotten some very fair deals on eBay and a few fantastic ones and it's a great resource when used with caution.

moodlover · May 19, 2015

Okay guys I have an update, came back from the camera shop and all the guy did was push the lever further forward. For some reason, if my lever is pushed only 90% and not 100% the camera will not fire and the lever will not lock. When I push that last 5-10% forward it functions like normal and returns from it's "messed up mode". Can anyone explain why this is happening?

Video proof (first is normal shot, then I recreate the problem, then I push it 100% forward to fix): http://tinypic.com/player.php?v=xbahdf>&s=8#.VVvXf6Yfk5k

MattKing · May 19, 2015

moodlover said:
Okay guys I have an update, came back from the camera shop and all the guy did was push the lever further forward. For some reason, if my lever is pushed only 90% and not 100% the camera will not fire and the lever will not lock. When I push that last 5-10% forward it functions like normal and returns from it's "messed up mode". Can anyone explain why this is happening?

Video proof (first is normal shot, then I recreate the problem, then I push it 100% forward to fix): http://tinypic.com/player.php?v=xbahdf>&s=8#.VVvXf6Yfk5k

My RB is the same.

It usually happens when the neck strap is slightly tangled with the lever.

The RB has two levers - one to cock the mirror and shutter, the other to wind the film. The RZ combines both functions in one lever. I expect that you were just not pushing the lever far enough to accomplish both.

Terje Lindal · May 20, 2015

The first 90% travel of the lever is advancing the film and lowering the mirror.
The last 10% is chocking the lens shutter.
As soon as the film is completely advanced to the next frame the gears involved in that operation
is someway disengaged. So repeating the first 90% will actually not do anything at all, and you feel
don’t any resistance when performing that “dummy operation”.
But, as you have experienced, until you complete the last 10% of the operation with the lever the
camera will be in a kind of intermediate state – sort of half way ready for the next shot, halfway not.
Most of this is also explained on page 19 in the user manual (actually the Pro II manual, but there
are no differences between the two models in this area).

moodlover · May 20, 2015

MattKing said:
My RB is the same.

It usually happens when the neck strap is slightly tangled with the lever.

The RB has two levers - one to cock the mirror and shutter, the other to wind the film. The RZ combines both functions in one lever. I expect that you were just not pushing the lever far enough to accomplish both.

Wow really? Thats good to hear, though I'm curious. Is whats happening with my camera's lever normal behavior? I suspect the fact that the lever moves freely if its not cocked fully as abnormal since a lot of people were telling me it's broken?!

Terje Lindal said:
The first 90% travel of the lever is advancing the film and lowering the mirror.
The last 10% is chocking the lens shutter.
As soon as the film is completely advanced to the next frame the gears involved in that operation
is someway disengaged. So repeating the first 90% will actually not do anything at all, and you feel
don’t any resistance when performing that “dummy operation”.
But, as you have experienced, until you complete the last 10% of the operation with the lever the
camera will be in a kind of intermediate state – sort of half way ready for the next shot, halfway not.
Most of this is also explained on page 19 in the user manual (actually the Pro II manual, but there
are no differences between the two models in this area).

Oh wow this is very informative, thank you. Do you still think the way my lever behaves is normal though? With a fully working camera, would it still "disengage" like that?

MattKing · May 20, 2015

It is likely that your camera is performing normally.

I hedge my bets slightly here, because I cannot feel how it reacts, but it certainly looks to be normal.

Terje Lindal · May 21, 2015

Yes - it is fully normal, "Working exactly as designed".

RZ67 lever not stopping! It moves freely after frame advance, can't fire shot! Broke?

moodlover

sir_mamiya

moodlover

John Koehrer

moodlover

John Koehrer

Wallendo

moodlover

Mainecoonmaniac

k.hendrik

M Carter

moodlover

MattKing

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RZ67 lever not stopping! It moves freely after frame advance, can't fire shot! Broke?

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