RVP 50 and RVP 100 long exposure color shift?

ziyanglai · May 18, 2014

Hello everyone, I did a 25 minute exposure a days ago WITHOUT any color correcting filters at all on RVP 100. When I got my film back from the lab, the colors shifted purple (Just on the long exposure shot, nothing else. The lab processed the film correctly, new film).

I just read on on Fuji's data sheet and various sites that when shooting on RVP 50 (not 100), and when doing long exposures, you'll need a magenta color correcting filter.

So when doing long exposures, the colors on RVP 50 shifts green and on RVP 100, it shifts purple?

Can someone verify this? I have shot both 50 and 100, but have never done long exposures on RVP 50. I would like to know if it will shift green.

Thanks everyone.

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wildbill · May 18, 2014

see page 3:http://www.fujifilmusa.com/shared/bin/Velvia50AF3-960E_1.pdf

Poisson Du Jour · May 18, 2014

Yes Velvia 100 shifts to a strong magenta cast unlike Velvia 50 which turns an ethereal green. The 100 version of that film is a bit too over-saturated for most photographers' use and is not easily tamed for long exposures. For very long exposures Provia 100F would be a better choice.

If you are doing long exposures with RVP50 even a magenta filter will not entirely cancel out the cast because of the film's poor reciprocity (contrast will also increase dramatically). The green cast can be especially creative for night scenes.

ziyanglai · May 18, 2014

Poisson Du Jour said:
Yes Velvia 100 shifts to a strong magenta cast unlike Velvia 50 which turns an ethereal green. The 100 version of that film is a bit too over-saturated for most photographers' use and is not easily tamed for long exposures. For very long exposures Provia 100F would be a better choice.

If you are doing long exposures with RVP50 even a magenta filter will not entirely cancel out the cast because of the film's poor reciprocity (contrast will also increase dramatically). The green cast can be especially creative for night scenes.

Thanks for your clarification.. I just feel like it's weird.. Aren't they both made from the same formula? Just better reciprocity failure and extra stop of light?

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Poisson Du Jour · May 18, 2014

RVP 50 and 100 share a baseline palette but 100 is much more enriched, particularly in the red spectrum, and contrast is a known issue. My own experience is that the whites while being very clean, will wash out very easily and thus exposure needs a bit more care than RVP 50.

Provia 100F is not the same formula as the Velvias (related: Velvia 100F is not the same formula as either RVP 50 or 100); it has better contrast, reciprocity and a more neutral palette that makes it suitable for people (portraiture) among many other applications where the traditional saturated Velvias can make people look like they've been sitting in front of the microwave. But despite its encouraging credentials, Provia 100F will also turn a surrealist purple over long exposures. I routinely push Provia 100F to the max for star trails, running it for between 4 and 6 hours. I do not filter this: the strong magenta cast is desirable but not essential; other people use tungsten film to render the skies blue (at night...) or cross process Velvia 50 in C41 for an altogether wierd and other-worldly effect. Your choice!

Provia 100F and both Velvias scan quite easily and well, but Velvia 100F is a challenge because of its quirky palette (chiefly mustard undertones and brownish reds, flat greens).

StoneNYC · May 19, 2014

Poisson Du Jour said:
RVP 50 and 100 share a baseline palette but 100 is much more enriched, particularly in the red spectrum, and contrast is a known issue. My own experience is that the whites while being very clean, will wash out very easily and thus exposure needs a bit more care than RVP 50.

Provia 100F is not the same formula as the Velvias (related: Velvia 100F is not the same formula as either RVP 50 or 100); it has better contrast, reciprocity and a more neutral palette that makes it suitable for people (portraiture) among many other applications where the traditional saturated Velvias can make people look like they've been sitting in front of the microwave. But despite its encouraging credentials, Provia 100F will also turn a surrealist purple over long exposures. I routinely push Provia 100F to the max for star trails, running it for between 4 and 6 hours. I do not filter this: the strong magenta cast is desirable but not essential; other people use tungsten film to render the skies blue (at night...) or cross process Velvia 50 in C41 for an altogether wierd and other-worldly effect. Your choice!

Provia 100F and both Velvias scan quite easily and well, but Velvia 100F is a challenge because of its quirky palette (chiefly mustard undertones and brownish reds, flat greens).

Velvia100f is also discontinued

But your info was really great stuff. I've only done exposures up to 4-5 minutes with Velvia50 and never had any green cast, in fact they all seemed to stay in the red/magenta spectrum...

I've always used a polarizing filter for my long exposures with Velvia50, would this perhaps have helped tame the green somehow and that's why I haven't seen the green? Or was it that 2-5 minutes wasn't long enough to see the shift?

Athiril · May 19, 2014

It's a shame, Astia was really good for this.

Poisson Du Jour · May 19, 2014

(there was a url link here which no longer exists) I have made exposures to 8 minutes on RVP50 (EOS 1N) in falling light to darkness with no casting. But exposures on Provia 100F have been 6 hours for star trails which will really bring out the magenta cast; one is free to take it or leave it, as it can easily be tidied up in post. I have never thought of Velvia 50 casting green being suitable for star trails.
Long exposures under a full moon are especially bewitching (that meaning the moment I trip the camera I've locked myself into the car and hiding under the blankets...). To best understand how Velvia 50 and 100 cast, expose them for more than an hour. Do the same with Provia 100F to see the difference. All exposures will be useable irrespective of the cast.

I don't use any filtration for star trails, though I use a polariser >99% of the time for landscape/scenic work with Velvia 50, so I couldn't say if it holds back casting for exposures in the range of 4-5 minutes.

Below: 6 hour exposure on Provia 100F
Star trails around the South Celestial Pole with
passage of the International Space Station,
Victoria River, Cobungra, Victoria January 2013.

Below: The same pic with the cast neutralised (we printed this out for a look-see but found it didn't have the WOW-EE! factor to it.)

The printed image (Kodak Endura Professional metallic) was left as-is with the magenta cast and it enthralls (befuddles?) people: "I didn't know night time was purple!"...

Xmas · May 19, 2014

StoneNYC said:
I've always used a polarizing filter for my long exposures with Velvia50, would this perhaps have helped tame the green somehow and that's why I haven't seen the green?

Only if the filter was cheap, for long exposures I remove my normal uV filter too big a risk of more spurious images, any large filter factor will hurt exposure time a lot.

You do look at the slide on a light box?

StoneNYC · May 19, 2014

Xmas said:
Only if the filter was cheap, for long exposures I remove my normal uV filter too big a risk of more spurious images, any large filter factor will hurt exposure time a lot.

You do look at the slide on a light box?

Yes on a light box, and no not cheap, I use the Nikon ultra slim circular polarizer. It's supposed to be better than the B+W filter (which is the only non-B+W filter I regularly use/own). It's in the $200 range.

StoneNYC · May 19, 2014

Poisson Du Jour said:
(there was a url link here which no longer exists) I have made exposures to 8 minutes on RVP50 (EOS 1N) in falling light to darkness with no casting. But exposures on Provia 100F have been 6 hours for star trails which will really bring out the magenta cast; one is free to take it or leave it, as it can easily be tidied up in post. I have never thought of Velvia 50 casting green being suitable for star trails.
Long exposures under a full moon are especially bewitching (that meaning the moment I trip the camera I've locked myself into the car and hiding under the blankets...). To best understand how Velvia 50 and 100 cast, expose them for more than an hour. Do the same with Provia 100F to see the difference. All exposures will be useable irrespective of the cast.

I don't use any filtration for star trails, though I use a polariser >99% of the time for landscape/scenic work with Velvia 50, so I couldn't say if it holds back casting for exposures in the range of 4-5 minutes.

Below: 6 hour exposure on Provia 100F
Star trails around the South Celestial Pole with
passage of the International Space Station,
Victoria River, Cobungra, Victoria January 2013.

View attachment 88255

Below: The same pic with the cast neutralised (we printed this out for a look-see but found it didn't have the WOW-EE! factor to it.)

View attachment 88256

The printed image (Kodak Endura Professional metallic) was left as-is with the magenta cast and it enthralls (befuddles?) people: "I didn't know night time was purple!"...

Hmm ok.

What "as is" is still dependent on the scan. But I know what you mean.

The star trails are nice, I've never understood how you decide where to aim the lens to get a perfect circle almost in the center... I mean, I know it's toward the poles, but seems almost really close. Lovely image. With context too.

Trail Images · May 19, 2014

This shot was an 8 minute exposure during a sunrise cycle with Mt. Whitney in the BG. It was from several years back now using Velvia 50 Quickloads. I did have to really dig the shadows out in the BG left hand foothills with photoshop processing as I recall. No filters.

StoneNYC · May 19, 2014

Trail Images said:
This shot was an 8 minute exposure during a sunrise cycle with Mt. Whitney in the BG. It was from several years back now using Velvia 50 Quickloads. I did have to really dig the shadows out in the BG left hand foothills with photoshop processing as I recall. No filters.

View attachment 88260

As a side note this reminded me that the underexposed Velvia50 has a distinct blue cast.

Trail Images · May 19, 2014

As a side note this reminded me that the underexposed Velvia50 has a distinct blue cast.

That was a real old processing Stone, good point. Here was a real quick PS cast removal.......

Poisson Du Jour · May 19, 2014

StoneNYC said:
Yes on a light box, and no not cheap, I use the Nikon ultra slim circular polarizer. It's supposed to be better than the B+W filter (which is the only non-B+W filter I regularly use/own). It's in the $200 range.

Well we have something in common there, if not the same filter. For years I have only taken up the B+W Slim Kasemann polarisers (you really don't want to know how much an 82mm one of these costs...); a year or so ago I actually lost one at the beach (!) and replaced it with a Kenko Zeta (made by Tokina). There are some polarisers that will impart or indeed worsen the blue cast of Velvia e.g. in bright sunlight and shadows. I think in this regard B+W polarisers are quite neutral; I really cannot be sure as I don't shoot Velvia in conditions where I know I will get a balls up with shadows and casting.

Poisson Du Jour · May 19, 2014

Hmm ok.

What "as is" is still dependent on the scan. But I know what you mean.

The star trails are nice, I've never understood how you decide where to aim the lens to get a perfect circle almost in the center... I mean, I know it's toward the poles, but seems almost really close. Lovely image. With context too.

The position was a bit of a fluke for that pic; I estimated it was higher up but after a wine or two or three... well, I was lucky to pinpoint anything in the pitch black!
And the tree is actually not leaning, but bolt upright: I used a 17mm lens aimed straight up with the tree on the side, and that's what happens...

We use the position of the Southern Cross here in Australia to ascertain the position of the South Celestial Pole, itself the 3000th faintest star (meaning it is not easily seen without a telescope); from the beam of the Cross we extend thumb and forefinger across to the right and add a little bit more and... chances are that's enough to locate the CSP. Without the Southern Cross it becomes a lot more difficult, but if we can't see the Southern Cross then it must be a cloudy night...

I have plans to travel next month into central and northern Australia (outback) and will have many regular opportunities (e.g. every night!) for star trails to put the old EOS1N to good use. Just got to manage the cold — quite mild in the outback at the moment but it does often drop below zero...

StoneNYC · May 19, 2014

Poisson Du Jour said:
Well we have something in common there, if not the same filter. For years I have only taken up the B+W Slim Kasemann polarisers (you really don't want to know how much an 82mm one of these costs...); a year or so ago I actually lost one at the beach (!) and replaced it with a Kenko Zeta (made by Tokina). There are some polarisers that will impart or indeed worsen the blue cast of Velvia e.g. in bright sunlight and shadows. I think in this regard B+W polarisers are quite neutral; I really cannot be sure as I don't shoot Velvia in conditions where I know I will get a balls up with shadows and casting.

After many reviews I chose the Nikon one, all the others are B+W and all my filters are 77mm and I use step up rings if I have to, AND I'm a Canon guy... But the quality of that particular Nikon product can't be denied.

Also, damn canon for coming out with 2 lenses (the new 24-70 and the newer 16-35) that needed 82mm filters! Gah!!!!

I won't upgrade at this point... You're a brave man Mr. 82mm... I in fact DO know how much they cost..

Don't buy direct from Nikon though, you can get them half off that price from other online retailers (like B&H).

Poisson Du Jour · May 19, 2014

The 82mm slim Kasemann is for the SMC Pentax 67 45mm; there are no lenses in my Canon line-up requiring 82mm, 77mm is as high as they go (and just as well given the numerous filters I have dropped, lost, misplaced and forgotten...).
I'm not brand-loyal now; an eye for quality and renown is sufficient to guide me in choice rather than what's stamped by way of name.

Poisson Du Jour · May 19, 2014

Trail Images said:
That was a real old processing Stone, good point. Here was a real quick PS cast removal.......

View attachment 88273

I love the composition of this. It's still very cyanish: snow is blue. Did you have a skylight 1B filter on for this?

Trail Images · May 19, 2014

I love the composition of this. It's still very cyanish: snow is blue. Did you have a skylight 1B filter on for this?

Thank you very much for your kind comment. I totally agree with your observation too. I've not touched this image in more then a few years now. Honestly, it's just a matter of me doing a rescan and some color balance overall. Just no time right now. My main reason for the post was the representation of the 8 minute exposure with Velvia 50 nothing more then that. Again, thank you for the review and input here.

RVP 50 and RVP 100 long exposure color shift?

ziyanglai

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