Royal Photographic Society Distinctions - value?

TheFlyingCamera · Dec 2, 2014

Is there anyone here who has ever competed for (and maybe even been awarded) any of the RPS distinctions (LRPS, ARPS, or FRPS)? What did it mean to you to achieve this? I know the FRPS is a very high honor, and some academic institutions will accept it in lieu of a graduate degree for employment purposes. What about the other RPS distinctions, though? I am considering attempting the ARPS distinction, for my own satisfaction if nothing else. I'm just curious what additional recognition it conveys.

Steve Roberts · Dec 3, 2014

Hi,
There's plenty of information on the RPS website regarding their distinctions. I was awarded the LRPS in 2004 and went on to ARPS in 2008. Like so many things, the value is hard to define, though it does denote a certain level of ability and understanding of photography, techniques, presentation, etc.. The success rate of applicants decreases as the level rises, of course. At my ARPS distinctions day about a fifth of applicants were successful. It's essential in my opinion (and the RPS's) to attend one or more tutorial days in order to understand what they are looking for in a submission. I don't know, but I'm sure there must be a US chapter where such support is available.
You say you're thinking of attempting the Associateship. The RPS doesn't generally like to see people leaping in part way up the ladder, but prefers to see applicants progressing from the bottom upwards. If you already have some qualifications, you may be accepted for an exemption at Licentiate level.
I'd say that regardless of any perceived value, a distinction is well worth undertaking, if only for personal satisfaction.

Best wishes,

Steve

Steve Roberts ARPS

Mike Crawford · Dec 3, 2014

TheFlyingCamera said:
I know the FRPS is a very high honor, and some academic institutions will accept it in lieu of a graduate degree for employment purposes.

With all respects to the RPS, I doubt this would happen, at least in the UK. The qualifications required for teaching at University level here are getting higher and higher. Once, an MA would be fine but more and more, Phds are asked for in photographic teaching jobs. This on top of a PGCE teaching certificate requiring a years full time study or two to three years part time.

Why you need a Phd to teach 18-20 year old BA students is another matter. One may have years of practical experience and relevant qualifications, but a candidate with a Doctorate, (any will do!) with little experience outside academia would be favoured. This may sound like sour grapes, (and perhaps there is a little of that), but sadly I know of a few examples of this happening. Besides, the higher the staff qualifications, the better the state funding for the Institute.

Better stop before I go into a rant on photographic education in the UK!

railwayman3 · Dec 3, 2014

The RPS qualifications are of a high standard and require serious interest, time and application.

FWIW, I've always regarded the LRPS and ARPS as being r more geared to the serious enthusiast photographer, rather than a qualification towards employment in the photographic field, while the FRPS seems to be a high honour awarded to a person who already made a proven, specialist, and, probably, original contribution to the science or art of photography. This seems to accord with Steve and Mike's views above.

But I'm a great believer in having some objective in one's photography, however modest, and the RPS qualifications are a serious example of a target. OTOH, studies and qualifications towards successful employment in photography may well be another matter.

TheFlyingCamera · Dec 3, 2014

Steve Roberts said:
Hi,
There's plenty of information on the RPS website regarding their distinctions. I was awarded the LRPS in 2004 and went on to ARPS in 2008. Like so many things, the value is hard to define, though it does denote a certain level of ability and understanding of photography, techniques, presentation, etc.. The success rate of applicants decreases as the level rises, of course. At my ARPS distinctions day about a fifth of applicants were successful. It's essential in my opinion (and the RPS's) to attend one or more tutorial days in order to understand what they are looking for in a submission. I don't know, but I'm sure there must be a US chapter where such support is available.
You say you're thinking of attempting the Associateship. The RPS doesn't generally like to see people leaping in part way up the ladder, but prefers to see applicants progressing from the bottom upwards. If you already have some qualifications, you may be accepted for an exemption at Licentiate level.
I'd say that regardless of any perceived value, a distinction is well worth undertaking, if only for personal satisfaction.

Best wishes,

Steve

Steve Roberts ARPS

I've been reading the RPS website and I have a pretty good understanding (at least I think I do) of the expectations for each level. I feel like my work is of sufficient standard to go for an ARPS, but I agree about meeting with the US chapter to find out more about the process as a whole. As for qualifications to exempt from the Licentiate, I am a photography instructor and I have publication credits in major national and international magazines (Art in America, Metropolitan Home, to name a few).

TheFlyingCamera · Dec 3, 2014

Mike Crawford said:
With all respects to the RPS, I doubt this would happen, at least in the UK. The qualifications required for teaching at University level here are getting higher and higher. Once, an MA would be fine but more and more, Phds are asked for in photographic teaching jobs. This on top of a PGCE teaching certificate requiring a years full time study or two to three years part time.

Why you need a Phd to teach 18-20 year old BA students is another matter. One may have years of practical experience and relevant qualifications, but a candidate with a Doctorate, (any will do!) with little experience outside academia would be favoured. This may sound like sour grapes, (and perhaps there is a little of that), but sadly I know of a few examples of this happening. Besides, the higher the staff qualifications, the better the state funding for the Institute.

Better stop before I go into a rant on photographic education in the UK!

I know that in the US, at least some schools will accept the FRPS as a substitute. I know of one person (so hardly conclusive, but still, a concrete example) who has an FRPS but no graduate degree, yet he teaches photography at a college in Santa Fe, New Mexico. I have no expectation of getting an FRPS any time soon (perhaps in my retirement I will have time to research and write a book about some aspect of photographic history that will qualify me, but that's another 20 years in the making).

For me, the thought of getting the ARPS beyond personal satisfaction (which is a significant motivator in itself) is as a qualification when marketing myself to potential portrait clients here in the US. I would imagine that any RPS distinction would be rather thinner on the ground here than in the UK, and could be a noteworthy distinction. And you know how us Yanks are obsessed with anything that has the word "royal" in it

David Allen · Dec 3, 2014

Whilst the RPS distinctions may well have some standing within the camera club world they do not generally in the commercial and art worlds. As such, the aesthetics required to achieve one of these distinctions is somewhat driven by that prevailing in the camera clubs. I applied directly for the ARPS when I was 18 as it had some credence to helping me get some part-time work as a camera club judge (by the way, in my day there was no need for a 'Statement of intent' otherwise known as verbiage applied to a VISUAL medium). I cancelled my membership of the RPS a couple of years later when the requirement that the photographer had to have made the prints themselves was removed.

None of the RPS destinations will help you get a job (outside, possibly, of the medical and archaeological specialisms). As to teaching you need, as Mike pointed out, at least one Phd with more being better. Perhaps this is the reason that I (no Phd only the old Institute of Industrial Photographers Professional Qualifying Examination qualification) regularly get requests for private tuition in analogue B&W photography from students studying photography at university.

If you want to set yourself a goal, far better would be to work towards a book that really works as a book rather than simply a collection of photographs that you like.

Bests,

David.
www.dsallen.de

Steve Smith · Dec 3, 2014

TheFlyingCamera said:
And you know how us Yanks are obsessed with anything that has the word "royal" in it

I have a friend who recently moved to San Francisco to work. She already sounds quite posh to British ears and is now being treated like royalty by her American colleagues.

Mike Crawford said:
Why you need a Phd to teach 18-20 year old BA students is another matter. One may have years of practical experience and relevant qualifications, but a candidate with a Doctorate, (any will do!) with little experience outside academia would be favoured

It's crazy. I work as an electronic and mechanical design engineer but I have no degree. I could easily teach maths, physics, machine shop, English and to a lesser extent, French at a school level, but without a piece of paper, I'm not allowed!

Steve.

RalphLambrecht · Dec 3, 2014

I believe ,they are the RPS way of makingyou continue the yearly dues
Ralph Lambrecht ARPS

Mike Crawford · Dec 3, 2014

I remember hearing a story that many, many years ago another American photographer had tried to join the RPS. He was rejected and one of the comments from the Lords of RPS about his submitted prints was that there was very little shadow detail in his sand dunes.

There again, Edward Weston ARPS just doesn't sound right!

Poisson Du Jour · Dec 3, 2014

RPS distinctions are of no circumstance or value here in Australia other than to elevate the individual to deity status in club circles. The Australian Institute of Professional Photography does not recognise distinctions as formal qualifications for membership and instead those who do get in affirm their status with AIPP after their name. The Australian Photographic Society places its own specific reciprocal value on RPS distinctions (equivalents are AAPS, FAPS, etc) but again this is not a professional body. If photographers want formal status and recognition they are best directed through formal professional governing bodies.

blockend · Dec 3, 2014

Mike Crawford said:
Why you need a Phd to teach 18-20 year old BA students is another matter.

It's about research. Universities are funded based on research points, and judged in independent league tables by similar criteria. The more active researchers an institution has, the more they can audit. Teaching universities, i.e. the old polytechnics, emphasised hands on skills, but all Uni's are judged by the same standard, and research is a big part of that. Other ways to validate your experience are professorships, but you'd need a serious and quantifiable history in the art or industry to qualify for one. Big names attract more researchers and student numbers.

Steve Roberts · Dec 4, 2014

David Allen said:
Whilst the RPS distinctions may well have some standing within the camera club world they do not generally in the commercial and art worlds. As such, the aesthetics required to achieve one of these distinctions is somewhat driven by that prevailing in the camera clubs. I applied directly for the ARPS when I was 18 as it had some credence to helping me get some part-time work as a camera club judge (by the way, in my day there was no need for a 'Statement of intent' otherwise known as verbiage applied to a VISUAL medium). I cancelled my membership of the RPS a couple of years later when the requirement that the photographer had to have made the prints themselves was removed.

None of the RPS destinations will help you get a job (outside, possibly, of the medical and archaeological specialisms). As to teaching you need, as Mike pointed out, at least one Phd with more being better. Perhaps this is the reason that I (no Phd only the old Institute of Industrial Photographers Professional Qualifying Examination qualification) regularly get requests for private tuition in analogue B&W photography from students studying photography at university.

If you want to set yourself a goal, far better would be to work towards a book that really works as a book rather than simply a collection of photographs that you like.

Bests,

David.
www.dsallen.de

David,

I would point out (not just to you but to others following this thread) that many accomplished practising professional photographers have and include in their credentials RPS distinctions. Consequently, I wouldn't subscribe to your opinion that the distinctions have some standing in camera clubs but nowhere else.

To me, the Statement of Intent is a vital part of the process at Associate level and above. Without it, how does the panel know whether the photographer has achieved his desired goals? Perhaps this is less important in some categories than in others - my chosen category was Documentary and Visual Journalism, and surely it's important for the applicant (me) to set out what he's intending to do in order for the panel to established whether he has fulfilled that aim?

As regards having to produce the prints one's self, this is a curious one. My Licentiateship submission was on 35mm transparency, as were others at the time, and it was generally assumed that these would have been processed commercially, though they may have been cropped in the mounts by the photographer. Analogue colour prints then could reasonably be assumed to be either home or lab processed, but with B/W it was generally assumed that they would have been printed by the photographer. Does it matter? Top professional photographers have their preferred printers - they don't necessarily DIY. Indeed, it used to be possible to obtain distinctions purely for printing photographs and also now by producing significant research or original written material.

The distinction may or may not 'get you a job' in the sense of a permanent, salaried position, but if working freelance, it can surely do no harm and may well do some good!

Best wishes,

Steve (P.S. - My Associateship used self-printed B/W)

railwayman3 · Dec 4, 2014

Steve Roberts said:
The distinction may or may not 'get you a job' in the sense of a permanent, salaried position, but if working freelance, it can surely do no harm and may well do some good!

I don't disagree, but I would suggest that success in any freelance business, particularly with customers unfamiliar with the meaning of "letters", is largely down to reputation, recommendation, and above all the quality of the work done. I hold three sets of qualification "letters" in my own professional field (nothing to do with photography) and cannot recall any client, or prospective client, ever asking me what they actually stand for !

OTOH, if I applied for a salaried position, an employer would certainly expect that I had these appropriate qualifications before they even looked at my C.V.

Steve Roberts · Dec 5, 2014

railwayman3 said:
OTOH, if I applied for a salaried position, an employer would certainly expect that I had these appropriate qualifications before they even looked at my C.V.

I've 'morphed' into the job I do (not photography related) largely because I've worked for the same employer for over 36 years, yet if I were to apply for my current post from outside the organisation tomorrow I wouldn't have a hope of getting it (not that I'd necessarily want it!) as I have no qualifications in my current field of work and so would fall at the first hurdle!
Best wishes,
Steve

Steve Smith · Dec 5, 2014

Steve Roberts said:
I've 'morphed' into the job I do (not photography related) largely because I've worked for the same employer for over 36 years, yet if I were to apply for my current post from outside the organisation tomorrow I wouldn't have a hope of getting it (not that I'd necessarily want it!) as I have no qualifications in my current field of work and so would fall at the first hurdle!

I am in the same position but only for a mere twenty six years. I am an engineer without a degree. I would have no chance applying for my own job!!

My uncle wins the employment at a single company race. He left school at 16 to work at Marconi in Portsmouth and a few years ago retired from there at the age of 65.

Steve.

Rick A · Dec 5, 2014

Steve Roberts said:
Hi,
There's plenty of information on the RPS website regarding their distinctions. I was awarded the LRPS in 2004 and went on to ARPS in 2008. Like so many things, the value is hard to define, though it does denote a certain level of ability and understanding of photography, techniques, presentation, etc.. The success rate of applicants decreases as the level rises, of course. At my ARPS distinctions day about a fifth of applicants were successful. It's essential in my opinion (and the RPS's) to attend one or more tutorial days in order to understand what they are looking for in a submission. I don't know, but I'm sure there must be a US chapter where such support is available.
You say you're thinking of attempting the Associateship. The RPS doesn't generally like to see people leaping in part way up the ladder, but prefers to see applicants progressing from the bottom upwards. If you already have some qualifications, you may be accepted for an exemption at Licentiate level.
I'd say that regardless of any perceived value, a distinction is well worth undertaking, if only for personal satisfaction.

Best wishes,

Steve

Steve Roberts ARPS

If you desire to be a man of letters, then by all means do it. It doesn't matter what any body else thinks.

Mike Crawford · Dec 7, 2014

blockend said:
It's about research. Universities are funded based on research points, and judged in independent league tables by similar criteria. The more active researchers an institution has, the more they can audit. Teaching universities, i.e. the old polytechnics, emphasised hands on skills, but all Uni's are judged by the same standard, and research is a big part of that. Other ways to validate your experience are professorships, but you'd need a serious and quantifiable history in the art or industry to qualify for one. Big names attract more researchers and student numbers.

Very true, and having taught part time at a few universities over the last few years, something I discuss and argue about with my peers now and again. But my question was about the validity and suitability of such tutors in photography for young students starting out who often need more basic understanding about photography, (technically, culturally and historically), before Barthes, Sontag and Freud are involved and their texts quoted without meaning in badly written artist statements. Very few practising photographers from commercial to fine art have a Phd, (or indeed need one), and are then denied the opportunity to teach and importantly inspire the next generation. Some very good photographers came out of the Polytechnics, though usually they had loads of self motivation. Personally, I loathe the module system and am amazed how few students work on personal projects outside of the course work. But.....maybe something for another discussion!

Royal Photographic Society Distinctions - value?

TheFlyingCamera

Membership Council

Steve Roberts

Mike Crawford

railwayman3

TheFlyingCamera

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TheFlyingCamera

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David Allen

Steve Smith

RalphLambrecht

Mike Crawford

Poisson Du Jour

blockend

Steve Roberts

railwayman3

Steve Roberts

Steve Smith

Rick A

Mike Crawford

Royal Photographic Society Distinctions - value?

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