Rotary Sheet Film Developing Issues

Hi all, I've been lurking on the forums for a while and I've worked up the courage to ask a question. I've run into a problem I am hoping someone can help me with.
I have recently acquired a new 8x10 camera and am switching over to a new developing regiment. I have started rotary processing with a Jobo 2830 tank and a Ilford motor base. The first negatives I developed with the new camera and processing were completely destroyed.

The corners are fogged and there are thick streaks of fog across much of the image. These streaks do not look like they were caused by a light leak in camera. My guess is something to do with my processing technique; however, I have spent the afternoon systematically going through each variable of my new workflow but everything is working fine now.

-I used a film holder that I know is light tight with the new camera. I then tray processed and the negative came out perfect.
-I suspected it could be the speed of the rotation of the new motor base, so I used a rotary tube I know is light tight. The negative came out perfect.
-Finally I used the new camera, jobo tank, and motor base. The negative came out perfect.

The final run was nearly identical to the original run that destroyed my test shots with the new camera.
The only difference is I used a prewash for my last run and did not for my first.
Could it have been the lack of prewash?

I can post a picture of the negative but I do know if it is against policy to post a d*gital picture in the analogue forums.

Max lisch said:

Hi all, I've been lurking on the forums for a while and I've worked up the courage to ask a question. I've run into a problem I am hoping someone can help me with.
I have recently acquired a new 8x10 camera and am switching over to a new developing regiment. I have started rotary processing with a Jobo 2830 tank and a Ilford motor base. The first negatives I developed with the new camera and processing were completely destroyed.

The corners are fogged and there are thick streaks of fog across much of the image. These streaks do not look like they were caused by a light leak in camera. My guess is something to do with my processing technique; however, I have spent the afternoon systematically going through each variable of my new workflow but everything is working fine now.

-I used a film holder that I know is light tight with the new camera. I then tray processed and the negative came out perfect.
-I suspected it could be the speed of the rotation of the new motor base, so I used a rotary tube I know is light tight. The negative came out perfect.
-Finally I used the new camera, jobo tank, and motor base. The negative came out perfect.

The final run was nearly identical to the original run that destroyed my test shots with the new camera.
The only difference is I used a prewash for my last run and did not for my first.
Could it have been the lack of prewash?

I can post a picture of the negative but I do know if it is against policy to post a d*gital picture in the analogue forums.

Click to expand...

Please post copies of the negatives.

Light strike, loose cap on the drum? Be careful with the single direction roller , I had some "bromide drag" very light underdeveloped streaks. I would just double check your self and keep going. Somehow you got some light strike on the film. Looks like the part that wasn't fogged is nicely developed

Looks to me like light got at the film - into the developing tank?

My final attempt I made sure the cap was tightly on so I think its definitely possible the top of the jobo tank wasn't properly locked down. It did seem attached the first time which makes me a little worried to use the tank.

I have been rotary processing film of all persuasions, B&W, C41 and E6 for around 30 years in my Jobo CPE2 processor. Not once have I used a pre-wash and I have put a lot of film stuff through.

Doesn't mean a pre-wash is bad, or could be bad; just that I have never seen the need for it.

I have never seen any commercial processor, be that roller transport, Dip 'N' Dunk or rotary processor use a pre-wash and when I started film processing around 60 years ago, I had never heard of pre-washing.

Last year (I think) I was part of the kickstarter for the Stearman Press SP-445 film developing tank (4x5" film). Since receiving it and trying it out, I have switched all of my sheet film developing to this tank, even though it means I have to hang around doing inversions for whatever the developing time is. It is a beautifully simple design and my reason for the initial purchase was so I could possibly develop film on the road as we take long holidays in the middle of nowhere in this country. It was so nice to use and the evenness of developing was as good as using the Jobo, so as it is faster to set up and I can monitor temperature and make minor adjustments during development, I now use it in preference to the Jobo. I still use the Jobo to develop all of my 135 film.

Stearman Press are developing an 8x10" tank, it could be worthwhile you following this.

https://shop.stearmanpress.com/blogs/news/first-test-of-the-sp-1810t

With regard to your Jobo and using your 2830 tank, just be aware that the lids really do need to be square on and firmly clicked in, to be correctly light sealed.

The bottom line is; you should use a pre-wash if you feel like it, or see a need for it. Whatever works for you and your developing regime, is the best practice.

Mick.

14 Sept 2018

Max Iisch:

mshchem said:

Light strike, loose cap on the drum? Be careful with the single direction roller , I had some "bromide drag" very light underdeveloped streaks. I would just double check your self and keep going. Somehow you got some light strike on the film. Looks like the part that wasn't fogged is nicely developed

Click to expand...

I agree with mshchem that you may have a light leak in the tank. I also use a JOBO rotary tank to do 4x5 sheet processing,and have had no problems. No have I ewer pre-washed film. Development times might be longer because developer needs to moisten the film emulsion. I remember reading in some Ilford literature that they recommend NOT using a pre-wash, but that may hold only for short development times. Pre-washing films is not "good" or "bad", just pick one method and be consistent.

As part of my development protocol I reverse the direction of the tank rotation every minute, as well as do a little agitation (by giving the tank a shake). Since my motor base is also uni-directional, I just flip the tank end-for-end.

Mick Fagan said:

I have been rotary processing film of all persuasions, B&W, C41 and E6 for around 30 years in my Jobo CPE2 processor. Not once have I used a pre-wash and I have put a lot of film stuff through.

Doesn't mean a pre-wash is bad, or could be bad; just that I have never seen the need for it.

I have never seen any commercial processor, be that roller transport, Dip 'N' Dunk or rotary processor use a pre-wash and when I started film processing around 60 years ago, I had never heard of pre-washing.

. . .

With regard to your Jobo and using your 2830 tank, just be aware that the lids really do need to be square on and firmly clicked in, to be correctly light sealed.

The bottom line is; you should use a pre-wash if you feel like it, or see a need for it. Whatever works for you and your developing regime, is the best practice.

Mick.

Click to expand...

Regards,
Darwin

Thanks for all the advice.

I ran another couple sheets through after dinner making sure that the cap was properly seated. The negatives are drying now and seem to have no issues. I ran a sheet through completely unexposed as a negative control and it came out completely clear.
I might gaff tape the cap just as insurance in the future, I didn't realize the caps could be that finicky.

I use the stearman press tank for 4x5 and really like it. However for 8x10 I really like being able to process more than one sheet at a time. I sort my film into n, n-1, n+1, etc, and I like being to able to process it more quickly in batches. The most recent design I saw from stearman was a single sheet taco tank that didn't fit what I was looking for. It has been a while since I have looked though.

How could a light leak in a tank produce such sharply edged streaks?
Also there are two levels where the streaks end, at the wider and longer streak one can see that level too.

I bet the lid (not cap) you are using does not have a light trap insert underneath. Show us a photo of the underside of the lid, looking straight through the opening.

That was my very first thought too, but I was puzzled by those sharp edges as well as the parallel orientation of the streaks.
So much about theory... , real llife shall tell the truth...

AgX said:

That was my very first thought too, but I was puzzled by those sharp edges as well as the parallel orientation of the streaks.
So much about theory... , real llife shall tell the truth...

Click to expand...

It's possible that the red ring was not snapped down tight . There are 3 or 4 "teeth" that need to be fully engaged, it could be that this could act as a pin hole ?? Just another guess. The problem is resolved and the OP is getting good results, may just be, one of those things.

Looks like the light snuck in from the end of the tank where the un-notched end of the film was. But it sounds like you got it figured out.

My Jobo 3005 Expert Drums are pretty sweet (I use them for 8x10 and 5x7, but I also have a 3006 for 5x7s). No chance of light leaking into those pups! Guanenteed to hold in 100% of their darkness! Not cheap, but so nice being able to do one to five 8x10s at a time. If possible, I like going straight from the film holder into the drums...the less I handle the film the better! I have 30 holders and after exposure I group them by their films' development needs.

From all the long posts on APUG on a rinse before developing, it appears to be a personal thing. I do it and also sometimes I will do a quick rinse between the stop bath and the fixer (Ilford Rapid) -- why...because the fix doesn't smell as bad when I pour it out of the drum. Also, sometimes I forget to measure out the fixer and do not realize it until I have poured out the stop bath from the drum, so I'll put water in until I get the fix measured. I suppose it also keeps the fix from getting stop bath in it, but it is probably not at all significant.

Just got home from work and was able to read all the posts.

I'm concidering the 3005 but it has been a little difficult to justify the purchase. I just upgraded a bunch of my other gear and the additional purchase seems a little foolhardy.

I think it was most likely the teeth weren't completely locked down. Upon closer inspection the marks look very similar to how the red teeth on the inside of the cap look. The angle of them matches the direction of the sun at the time so it all seems to fit.

I am getting good results now.
I can post a picture of the inside of the cap but I checked it for light leaks in the darkroom and it seems lightproof when fully locked down.

I have gotten consistently good results with the Jobo 3010 Expert Drum, well worth the cost.