room temp RA-4 in trays

[Wayne]

My first attempt starts in 45 minutes. Spur of the moment thing and I realized I don't know if I need to use a stop bath. I don't know why I would, since I don't use one in drums...maybe to keep the blix fresh(which is all I have, not bleach-fix)? I googled and some people USE a stop, but I don't see where anyone says you NEED one. If I NEED one, can I use a half-strength citric acid stop? (which is also all I have)

 

[Wayne]

ahhh, found it. Well I found that I shouldn't use citric acid. Still haven't found if/why I need stop but I'll dilute some vinegar anyway

 

[bvy]

Makes you blix last longer. Also, allegedly, promotes even development.

 

[Wayne]

That was an interesting session. I decided to try and duplicate the last 8x10 RA-4 print I made, way back in late October, so I set the filtration the same. Then I poured blix into the tray with the developer (which was from October anyway, but I wanted to test), so I had to remix developer. Then I noticed the Arista instructions say 3 minutes and 20 seconds in drums at 75 F, the lowest temp they showed. I was at 68 F. Do I develop for 4 minutes, or the 2 I had planned on? I decided on 2. Then I went to expose an 8x10 print and realized I only had 1.25 sheets of paper left. So I made a test strip, developed it and saw that tell-tale red cast that means I exposed it with white light. Down to one sheet. Everything going wrong so far. But I could tell it had worked. So I just set the exposure to the same I used in October, and hoped. After 2 minutes of developer and 2 minutes of blix I turned the light on, and peered into the murky blix. The print looked awful in the tray, dark red-brown, and I could barely see the image. I wondered what I did wrong. But I pulled it out and it was perfect.

Bye-bye drums.

 

[RPC]

Congratulations.

I don't use a stop bath for RA-4 and haven't had any problems. I do agitate vigorously as soon as I put the print in the blix tray, to minimize the chance of any spotting, staining or unevenness.

If you have a pH meter it is a good idea to check the pH of the blix occasionally and adjust it with acetic acid if you are not using a stop bath, for best activity.

 

[Wayne]

What should the pH of the blix be?

 

[RPC]

Kodak, for their bleach-fix (blix) says 6.0-6.5.

 

[Wayne]

Thanks. That leads to (the first of many) new questions. What capacity should I expect per liter in trays? (I've used the Arista kit, one-shot in drums). Is there any reason to think the capacity is much different between various brands?

For best economy should I be buying Kodak chems?
I see many references in the archives to Kodak RA/RT, but a product with that exact name doesn't seem to exist, and yet others say the Arista kit IS Kodak RA/RT which doesn't clear anything up.

So is this what I need for a better value than Arista in developers? Kodak Ektacolor 10 liter
and in blix?: Kodak Ektacolor

I see they have 100 liter size too, but I have no need for that much.


Well my links don't work but I was trying to link
Product #:
EKY8415580 and
Product #:
EKY6601629
at uniquephoto.com

 

[RPC]

Wayne, the RA-RT you refer to is a replenisher, not a regular straight developer, but works well as a developer, at least at room temperature and is endorsed by PE. For some reason, Kodak does not promote this capability. It is officially known as Kodak Ektacolor RA Developer Replenisher RT, often referred to here on APUG simply as RA-RT. Mix as directed; no starter is needed. Use at 68F for 2 minutes. My guess it is cheaper per liter than the Arista, which I have never used.

The RA-RT is what I use. I keep it in glass canning jars filled and tightly sealed. After a printing session I pour the used amount back into a jar the size of which will fill up, for later use. It then keeps very well, even after use. I don't know the exact capacity of a liter of it, but it has an excellent preservative in it, and I wouldn't be surprised, given my experience with it, if you could get the same capacity out of it per liter using trays that you would get using a liter of it one-shot in a drum.

 

[Photo Engineer]

In tray processing, you do not need a stop, but use of one will extend the life of the blix due to a pH rise from carryover developer.

The process I use is 2', 2', and 10' for Dev, Blix and wash at 68F. I usually extend the wash a bit.

I usually do not need to readjust the color balance, and I think that is what you are seeing.

PE

 

[bvy]

Those are the same Kodak chemicals I use. I can't speak to capacity in terms of reuse, as I use it one shot in drums. 60ml is good one for 8x10 sheet of paper in an 8x10 drum -- one minute at 94F. It's economical and guarantees me consistency (or at least throws out a variable if things get inconsistent).

I use an acetic acid stop followed by a rinse before blixing.

 

[Wayne]

Wayne, the RA-RT you refer to is a replenisher, not a regular straight developer, but works well as a developer, at least at room temperature and is endorsed by PE. For some reason, Kodak does not promote this capability. It is officially known as Kodak Ektacolor RA Developer Replenisher RT, often referred to here on APUG simply as RA-RT. Mix as directed; no starter is needed. Use at 68F for 2 minutes. My guess it is cheaper per liter than the Arista, which I have never used.

The RA-RT is what I use. I keep it in glass canning jars filled and tightly sealed. After a printing session I pour the used amount back into a jar the size of which will fill up, for later use. It then keeps very well, even after use. I don't know the exact capacity of a liter of it, but it has an excellent preservative in it, and I wouldn't be surprised, given my experience with it, if you could get the same capacity out of it per liter using trays that you would get using a liter of it one-shot in a drum.

Ok good, that was the developer I linked to in a 10 liter size (and what bvy uses?). I presume they come as liquid concentrates so I can mix a couple liters at a time.

Maybe I can post a pic of the bleach-fix I was looking at because the name is slightly different in that it has no "RT". It is also called a replenisher but it's the only other 10 liter Kodak RA-4 chem I find at Unique so it must be the right stuff to go qwith the 10 liter developer replenisher. Can someone confirm?

 

[Wayne]

In tray processing, you do not need a stop, but use of one will extend the life of the blix due to a pH rise from carryover developer.

The process I use is 2', 2', and 10' for Dev, Blix and wash at 68F. I usually extend the wash a bit.

I usually do not need to readjust the color balance, and I think that is what you are seeing.

PE

Ron, can you comment on capacity or (tightly bottled) shelf life of either Kodak solution once used?

 

[bvy]

I mix the developer all at once and decant to about 15 600ml bottles filled to capacity, tightly sealed, and stored in a cool dark area. I've used these up to a year later with no noticeable degradation in results.

The blix you show is the same one I use. I've gotten about three years out of my current supply, mixing as needed, and keeping the stock solutions in the original bottles.

 

[Photo Engineer]

Ron, can you comment on capacity or (tightly bottled) shelf life of either Kodak solution once used?

The figure I used to use was 25 8x10 sheets / gallon. I think that is right. One package per gallon using the older kits, and it projected into all later kits.

PE

 

[Wayne]

The figure I used to use was 25 8x10 sheets / gallon. I think that is right. One package per gallon using the older kits, and it projected into all later kits.

PE

Oh, wow. That's only a fraction of what I get doing 1-shot. Yet somehow unless my math is off its still much cheaper than using the Arista kit 1-shot. I come up with about 45c/print vs 79c/print
Now I see why people buy the 100 liter.

And is this lower capacity primarily because its being partially reused, or is it just a property of the Kodak chemicals?

 

[MattKing]

Oh, wow. That's only a fraction of what I get doing 1-shot. Yet somehow unless my math is off its still much cheaper than using the Arista kit 1-shot. I come up with about 45c/print vs 79c/print
Now I see why people buy the 100 liter.

And is this lower capacity primarily because its being partially reused, or is it just a property of the Kodak chemicals?

J-39 is a useful Kodak datasheet:
http://www.kodak.com/global/en/professional/support/techPubs/j39/j39.pdf

It recommends for tubes minimum solution volumes of 110 ml/ft2.

Which works out to 61ml per 8x10.

With respect to trays, it says:

Solution Capacity

You can reuse the chemicals without increasing the time in the developer for subsequent processes. The recommended number of 8 x 10-inch (20.3 x 25.4 cm) prints is 15 per quart (946 mL) or 16 per litre (33.8 fl oz). In some noncritical applications, you may be able to process up to 40 prints. However, do not use developer that has been in an open tray for more than 4 hours.

 

[Photo Engineer]

Oh, wow. That's only a fraction of what I get doing 1-shot. Yet somehow unless my math is off its still much cheaper than using the Arista kit 1-shot. I come up with about 45c/print vs 79c/print
Now I see why people buy the 100 liter.

And is this lower capacity primarily because its being partially reused, or is it just a property of the Kodak chemicals?

Michael has given the correct answer. The chemistry seasons in with continued use, and loses strength, however, when used one shot, the results are always the same.

Therefore, if you were to process 25 sheets in 1 gallon, and do it in 5 x 5 sheet batches, you would gradually see shifts in color and have some crossover and stain due to use. Chemicals are used up and chemicals come out of the coating.

PE

 

[MattKing]

Michael

I think PE means "Matt"

 

[Photo Engineer]

Sorry.

 

[Wayne]

It recommends for tubes minimum solution volumes of 110 ml/ft2.

Which works out to 61ml per 8x10.

I used 70 ml for my cost estimate. I always like a bit more than I need in the drum.

With respect to trays, it says:

Solution Capacity

You can reuse the chemicals without increasing the time in the developer for subsequent processes. The recommended number of 8 x 10-inch (20.3 x 25.4 cm) prints is 15 per quart (946 mL) or 16 per litre (33.8 fl oz).

I can live with that. I'll just make a print, slice it in a half dozen pieces and process a slice every now and then throughout the session to see how quickly its deteriorating on me.

However, do not use developer that has been in an open tray for more than 4 hours.

Well whatya know. I just picked up a couple of these for processing 11 x 14 prints tonight. Now that I've discovered the joy of trays, I expect my color developing sessions will be getting longer. Having to muck around with drums and hair dryers and heated chems always bored me out after just a couple hours.

 

[Wayne]

Well whatya know. I just picked up a couple of these for processing 11 x 14 prints tonight. Now that I've discovered the joy of trays, I expect my color developing sessions will be getting longer. Having to muck around with drums and hair dryers and heated chems always bored me out after just a couple hours.

Darn, don't believe the measurements on these. They won't work for 11 x 14 but are dandy for 8x10

 

[RPC]

I used drums with heated chemicals years ago and when room temperature processing became available, I switched to trays and have never looked back. My printing sessions became oh so more productive and fun. It is not for everyone, however, as some people seem to be bothered by the developer fumes so drums or processors would be best for them. Good ventilation is advised.

 

[Wayne]

I can't get over how much easier, quicker, more productive working in trays is.

And the #13 safelight filter almost makes it not fair. With a 15 watt bulb > 4 feet away I can actually see the trays now. Two thumbs up for trays!

By the way does the color balance go in a predictable color direction as the developer gets used? I would expect so, although I wouldn't expect you could predict the amount. Just curious; I observed some changes as I developed more prints but I'm not sure if they were due to different negatives or changes in the chemicals or even bleach temp (which is not tightly controlled but I usually give it extra time).

 

[Tyler H.]

Hello! I know this is a little old, as 2016 is coming to an end in a few days. But, I would like to ask a question, if you fine people don't mind! I'm thinking about getting Kodak's RA chemicals to experiment with producing color prints. I have read this page many times, and it seems simple enough about the chemistry I HAVE to buy. It seems that in order to process prints at room temperature in trays, one will need the Kodak RA-RT developer and the Bleach-Fix. Well, my question is about the bleach-fix: Does one only need the part 'A' to successfully make a color print. Now, I have looked at the picture of the RA-RT developer on Unique Photo's website. There, is says that you are buying part 'A'. From what I understand, you only need part 'A' to develop paper, right? The photo that is placed on this page of the Bleach-Fix is part 'A'. Is part 'A' all I need of the Bleach-Fix?