Rolleiflex Shutter Release Issue

[mooseontheloose]

Last Sunday I was on the final day of a two-week road trip and about mid-roll in my Rolleiflex 3.5F. Earlier in the morning I shot half a roll, then drove up to my final destination a few hours later. When I went to take some photos to finish the roll, the shutter button would not press down/release. It was stuck. After fiddling around with the camera a little, I got it to release once, and then was able to move the film forward until the end, but the crank would only move about 1/4 of the way at the time, and I felt and heard little clicks as I moved to the crank forward. Since then nothing will work - the shutter release remains stuck. It only releases if I use an external shutter release to trip the shutter - then the camera works fine.

I know that I will probably need to get it serviced, since I lack the experience and confidence to do it myself, but I'm just wondering what causes this issue and how to avoid it in the future? After 20 years of shooting TLRs I've never come across this situation before.

 

[Down Under]

Yes, it's surely high time for a service...

A Rolleiflexx 3.5F is going on half a century old and most likely will benefit greatly from a check-up and full service. It won't be cheap, but the camera will then probably keep on making good images, and may even outlast you. Like my 1966 3.5E2 which has had two services in its long life (it was a 1961 model but it sat unloved on a drug store shelf for five years before I acquired it) and still shoots well, even with slight balsam separation in its Planar. I used it last weekend and as always it gave me 12 perfect small engravings in black-and-white.

If your problem had been only the shutter button, then I would hazard the guess that it could be a broken spring. But you also have winder problems, something has either broken down or worked its way loose in the winding system. Those small 'clicks' you hear or heard indicate the latter - I hope it may be something as simple as a little dirt or a loose bit, but you will only know when a good tech has opened up the right side and checked it.

Kudos to you for having the good sense to not tackle a home repair - too many Rolled TLR owners lack this basic trait and have no mechanical skills to do the work. I've owned at least one TLR that had been home-tinkered with and undoing the damage the well-meaning previous owner did cost me a fair amount (although I have to say the former owner did offer to pay half, which I politely refused). This was about 20 years ago, the camera was CLA'd and fixed by a Rollei-trained repair person in Melbourne. I no longer own it but its current owner is still making fine images with it, so the pro work was done well.

However much you spend will be well worth what you will get. Please let us know what the problem was in due course.

 

[mooseontheloose]

I bought the camera in May 2020, and it had recently been CLA'd and looked to be in mint condition (though less so now since I really use it as a user and don't baby it too much). It's a very late model 3.5f - IIRC was made in the early 1970s. I know that makes it 50 years old (or nearly, just like me), but I had hoped the CLA would mean that it would last quite a while before the next servicing. I guess I was wrong. I just want to know what causes this issue and if it can be avoided in the future, or if it's just something that can happen due to age and wear and tear and there's not much I can do about it.

 

[shutterfinger]

since I lack the experience and confidence to do it myself, but I'm just wondering what causes this issue and how to avoid it in the future?

Numbering is not consistent between photos. Photo 1 the complete camera parts breakdown. A lot to take in so we look at sections. 1 in this photo is the winding/film advance/shutter cocking assembly, a lot of parts in a few modules. 2 is the cam assembly operated by 1, it moves arms that advance the film counter and the shutter cocking arm. 3 is the shutter cocking and release levers. 4 is the shutter release button.
Photo 2. 1 is the cam assembly at 100%; 1a is the film counter arm; 1b is the shutter cocking arm.
Photo 3. 1c is the shutter cocking ring; 1d is the release ring. 2 in the shutter button.
The problem is something in photo1 #1 is loose or broken preventing the cam assembly from fully operating blocking the shutter cocking from fully operating blocking the shutter release button. The cable release socket connects to the release ring latch and operates it.
It will likely not be too difficult to fix.

 

[Dan Daniel]

So with a cable release, everything is fine, yes? That's a good sign. The shutter button pushes a lever that starts the whole game of firing the shutter and releasing the wind system so you can move to the next frame after the shutter fires, etc. A cable release simply pushes the same lever. Sounds as if the problem is with the shutter release button and its lock. The winding issue could be the button holding the lever in certain positions that, in turn, rotate the metering (film measuring system) ring to a partial engagement, hence the clunky semi-winding.

So I would guess the shutter lock is causing the problem. Often if a roll is going fine, you put the camera away, move around, and then the problem starts, it means the camera took a hit of some sort between the last use and problem. Maybe the lever got crunched and although it looks like it is in the 'release' setting, internally it is binding the button. See what happens if you play with the lock lever, moving it back and forth. AND check for any up/down motion. The basic idea is that as you rotate the lever it pushes a piece of metal out of the way or lets it drop back into a groove in the shutter button to lock. If the lever isn't engaging properly, the default is locked. Hard to say without seeing the camera but the lever could be loose.

There is a retaining collar around the shutter button. Put the lever in the locked position and see if this is loose. Use a small screwdriver in one of the slots to try to push it one way or another (use light pressure, not trying to undo a bolt or anything). If it is, tighten it. Or loosen it and remove the lever to see what is going on with its engagement with the stopping spring. That's really the most that can be done from the outside. And removing the front covers on an F opens up a big can of worms.

It can be fixed most likely and isn't just the 'new normal.'

 

[Nitroplait]

I bought the camera in May 2020, and it had recently been CLA'd and looked to be in mint condition (though less so now since I really use it as a user and don't baby it too much). It's a very late model 3.5f - IIRC was made in the early 1970s. I know that makes it 50 years old (or nearly, just like me), but I had hoped the CLA would mean that it would last quite a while before the next servicing. I guess I was wrong. I just want to know what causes this issue and if it can be avoided in the future, or if it's just something that can happen due to age and wear and tear and there's not much I can do about it.

Never give any value to the claim "recently CLA'd" unless documented. If you have documentation for the CLA, contact the repair facility (assuming it is reputable) and get their assessment - a repair of the issue should be sufficient, not a CLA again.

 

[mooseontheloose]

So with a cable release, everything is fine, yes? That's a good sign. The shutter button pushes a lever that starts the whole game of firing the shutter and releasing the wind system so you can move to the next frame after the shutter fires, etc. A cable release simply pushes the same lever. Sounds as if the problem is with the shutter release button and its lock. The winding issue could be the button holding the lever in certain positions that, in turn, rotate the metering (film measuring system) ring to a partial engagement, hence the clunky semi-winding.

So I would guess the shutter lock is causing the problem. Often if a roll is going fine, you put the camera away, move around, and then the problem starts, it means the camera took a hit of some sort between the last use and problem. Maybe the lever got crunched and although it looks like it is in the 'release' setting, internally it is binding the button. See what happens if you play with the lock lever, moving it back and forth. AND check for any up/down motion. The basic idea is that as you rotate the lever it pushes a piece of metal out of the way or lets it drop back into a groove in the shutter button to lock. If the lever isn't engaging properly, the default is locked. Hard to say without seeing the camera but the lever could be loose.

There is a retaining collar around the shutter button. Put the lever in the locked position and see if this is loose. Use a small screwdriver in one of the slots to try to push it one way or another (use light pressure, not trying to undo a bolt or anything). If it is, tighten it. Or loosen it and remove the lever to see what is going on with its engagement with the stopping spring. That's really the most that can be done from the outside. And removing the front covers on an F opens up a big can of worms.

It can be fixed most likely and isn't just the 'new normal.'

Thanks Dan, I'll try that tomorrow morning when my brain is fresh and I'm less likely to make a mistake. In the meantime, I contacted a well-known repair facility in Tokyo that can probably do the repair, but I know they'll be pricey as nearly everything is here in Japan.