Rolleiflex scratching film

fadedpastels · Jan 31, 2019

About a year ago I bought a Rolleiflex 2.8f for a decent price off ebay it had just been restored by Harry Fleenor at Oceanside Camera Repair. The problem I found after was that it scratches film along the right side of the frame I've tried cleaning the rollers and anything else the film might brush up against as it rolls on but I don't see anything with my naked eye does anyone have any suggestions on what to possibly look for before I look into sending it out to be serviced? The warranty from Harry Fleenor was not transferable to a new owner but it was such a deal I thought that I held on to it anyways hoping to fix the problem later on. Can anyone suggest a faster rolleiflex repair service as Oceanside Camera Repair would take months.

Kino · Jan 31, 2019

OK, how do you define "right side" of the negative?

Is that in relation to how the image is oriented on the film with the image reading correctly, OR as how the film is transported in the camera, emulsion down?

Is it the base or emulsion side that is being scratched?

You could try Bill Moretz at Pro Camera in Charlottesville, VA. https://procamera.us/

fadedpastels · Jan 31, 2019

Yes when reading it correctly. The emulsion is what appears to be scratched although truthfully It is very hard for me to tell. Thanks for the suggestion.

Dan Daniel · Jan 31, 2019

Put the film in the camera as it was when exposed- upside down, reversed, emulsion to lens. This will tell you at least which side to focus on.

Wait a minute: you can't tell if the film is scratched???

We need images of the scratches.

fadedpastels · Jan 31, 2019

I mean it is hard to tell which side the scratches are on I went back and forth but it does primarily look like it is on the emulsion side. I have been trying to upload a photo here but it isn't working.

Pieter12 · Jan 31, 2019

Are you holding the film obliquely to the light?

fadedpastels · Jan 31, 2019

Yes I am. I managed to upload a photo to the original post.

shutterfinger · Jan 31, 2019

How is the film being processed, by you or a lab?

The rollers should turn with the weight of a 1/4 inch down feather just touching it, do they turn freely?
Are there any burs or rough edges on the pressure plate or film guides?

fadedpastels · Jan 31, 2019

It couldn't be the processing I develop the film myself and it comes out fine with my other cameras. The rollers seem to turn freely with ease and I don't see any obvious imperfections I've ran a q-tip over it.

MattKing · Jan 31, 2019

You have uploaded a scan.
We need to see a photo of the negatives themselves, in order to see the scratch.

shutterfinger · Jan 31, 2019

1. Remove the back.
2. Lay face/lens side down protecting the lens or top down as needed to preform step 3.
3. Lay a straight edge across the body edges and measure the distance from the straight edge to each roller at the left edge, center, and right edge using feeler gauge or caliper.

Does the film index correctly? Are the scratches between the frames also?

fadedpastels · Jan 31, 2019

MattKing said:
You have uploaded a scan.
We need to see a photo of the negatives themselves, in order to see the scratch.

I tried but you can't see it in the photo, it looks the same as in a scan.

shutterfinger said:
1. Remove the back.
2. Lay face/lens side down protecting the lens or top down as needed to preform step 3.
3. Lay a straight edge across the body edges and measure the distance from the straight edge to each roller at the left edge, center, and right edge using feeler gauge or caliper.

Does the film index correctly? Are the scratches between the frames also?

Yes. The scratching runs all along the same spot and in between the frames as well.

Dan Daniel · Jan 31, 2019

Can you enlarge the scratched area? The image is small on my screen and I can barely see the scratched area. Looks like two black line, parallel, with smudges runnnig the length in between the two lines?

Is the calibration area of the scanner clean? f you rotate the negative, does the scratch stay in the same place on the negative?

From what i can see in the small image, there is nothing specific in a Rollei film path that could cause that.

Can you feel anything in the film? Finger or nail will sometimes sense even something that small.

shutterfinger · Jan 31, 2019

Dan, Matt,
click on the thumbnail in post 1, click on the diagonal arrow in the upper right corner of the image screen then place your mouse cursor on the image and click to enlarge it. The lines are faint but visible. Crop from the enlarged image:

Inspect the rollers abouy t 1/8 to 3/16 inch inward from the left edge of the image frame (looking into the camera from the rear) with a negative insp ection loupe for any burnishing or flat spot after verifying they're not bent. I have encountered rollers that scratched film but had no visible defects under high magnification and turned very smoothly.

Processing can only be ruled out if you processed the same format film from other cameras using the same equipment as the Rolleiflex film.

mfagan · Jan 31, 2019

I don’t have the trouble-shooting experience as the other posters, but it occurs to me to ask whether this problem occurred with the first roll of film after buying the camera — any other rolls shot with the same camera resulting in the same problem? Same film type as you have used in your other cameras? That is, could it be defective film?

fadedpastels · Jan 31, 2019

It isn't the scanner.. the scratches are on the film itself. Yes I can also feel it. I have other examples I can post but they generally all look about the same the quality is lost uploading it here so It doesn't look as severe. I've inspected the rollers closely going over and cleaning them and such it is about all I can do.

fadedpastels · Jan 31, 2019

mfagan said:
I don’t have the trouble-shooting experience as the other posters, but it occurs to me to ask whether this problem occurred with the first roll of film after buying the camera — any other rolls shot resulting in the same problem? That is, could it be defective film?

All results from this camera have been the same from the start no matter the film.

mfagan · Jan 31, 2019

fadedpastels said:
All results from this camera have been the same from the start no matter the film.

Thanks. It was on my mind, so had to ask.

MattKing · Jan 31, 2019

shutterfinger said:
Dan, Matt,
click on the thumbnail in post 1, click on the diagonal arrow in the upper right corner of the image screen then place your mouse cursor on the image and click to enlarge it. The lines are faint but visible.

Oh I can see it in the scan.
But in order to isolate the question from anything that arises from the scanning process, I prefer to see the negatives themselves.

shutterfinger · Jan 31, 2019

Check that the pressure plate is the same height at any position on any side from the back. Ensure the pressure plate is fully in the 120/6x6 position.

Having serviced several Rollei 6x6 cameras its easy to warp/bend the back as they are soft aluminum. Ensure the back engages the camera body evenly along both sides and bottom and snaps into place without force. Rolleiflex 2.8f back shown.

Dan Daniel · Jan 31, 2019

A consistent scratch like I am seeing is most likely from a stationary object, like the film opening top or bottom edge. If it was a roller,there would be variation including slight sideways movement.

I would check the metal at top and bottom edges matching the scratch location. Take a magnifier to these areas. You could take some metal polish like Simichrome and rub out the paint. Maybe lap the paint with some 2000 grit sandpaper on a block.

dpurdy · Jan 31, 2019

I had scratches like that on a Rollei and it turned out to be from the mask over the film gate... it is what Dan Daniel is describing I believe. You definitely need to hold the film in place as it went through the camera, right at the film gate. that should give you a very clear idea of exactly what is causing the scratch. I ended up using a very fine file and smoothing down the edge of the mask. I think Dan Daniel is probably exactly right, though I don't know that simichrome has enough abrasive power, certainly some fine sandpaper would work... but you have to locate the scratching spot.

tezzasmall · Feb 1, 2019

I enlarged the scan as mentioned in post 14 and there is MORE than just one line = I can see quite a few around the same area, all running parallel to each other. I don't know if this helps at all?

Terry S

Ian C · Feb 1, 2019

If the scratches are on the emulsion, you should consider the possibility of “cinch marks”, (which you can research on the Internet). This could happen if the film encountered far too much resistance during winding. If so, that would imply service is required.

If you examine the film closely with a strong magnifier, such as a loupe, and angle the film about relative to single light source, such as the sun or a single lamp, the side with the scratches will be obvious, as they are 3-dimensional, if in fact these are actual physical scratches into the surface of the emulsion. Since this is a paper-backed film, scratches on the base side are unlikely.

Multiple parallel lines is a distinguishing feature of “cinch marks.” That could also happen if the film is incorrectly threaded UNDER the rollers—instead of correctly threaded OVER the rollers. You probably didn’t do so, but sometimes a new user does.

Klaus_H · Feb 1, 2019

My Rolleiflex 3,5 F had the same issue with scratching.
It was caused by one of the both screws holding the detector roller for film start.

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