Rolleiflex in E.U.

I've found the Rolleiflex 2.8FX being sold in the UK for 3000 euros without tax, 2500 in Denmark without tax and 4000 in Greece with tax.
Why the huge difference in prices?

arigram said:

The reason I am going for the Rolleiflex is because I want a street/travel camera that is more compact, more light and more quiet than the Hasselblad.
...
Fast focus, TTL metering, well coated lens are all important to me and the ones I would lose with a new model are not.

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Ari, I'm not sure how important is TTL metering. My uneducated guess is that TTL would be used most in studio - and in those cases you can use a separate light/flash meter.

If it will be used primarily for street shooting with fill-in flash, you have a valid point (regarding TTL metering).

But, given that you said you want to be unobtrusive, I don't really see how you can be "invisible/unobrustive" with any kind of flash. So, for myself, TTL would be of minor importance in such a situation (street shooting).
Once you strike the TTL metering off your list of features, you might as well use a second hand (used) Rolleiflex, which will be much cheaper than the prices you quoted.

If you can find a used one in Greece, I would recommend trying it before buying - or at least comparing a good used one to a new one - and seeing whether 5-10x difference in price is worth it (for the intended purpose)....

I can only offer my persepective - I purchased a used Rolleiflex T in Austria a couple of years ago, for about 280 EUR (in almost pristine condition, the lens was a bit cloudy because of the evaporting grease). After about EUR 50 for the cost of cleaning the lens, the camera was as new!

It does have 75/3.5 Tessar lens, though. The 80/2.8 Planar (or Xenotar) would probably be more expensive - but a good used one should not cost much more than about 500 EUR. Compared to about 3500 EUR for a new one, it IS quite a difference in price!

OTOH, any kind of Rollie (even the new one!) will probably have much dimmer ground glass than your Hassie (particularly if the Hassie is equipped with AccuMatte prism/finder!).

So, my suggestion is to try before you buy - whether new or used...

Denis

I just checked the price for a new FX at B&H Photo in New York and converted Euro it is about 2,900. The meter on the FX is a great improvement over the F and older meters. If you really want to use a camera meter it is a good one. A lot of people say the old F meter works fine for them but I have found them to be pretty bad to nearly useless so I use a hand held meter. The lens on the FX is sharper at 2.8 than the older ones are for the most part as well as more flare resistant.

Regarding the screen.
I need this clarification as it is important to me:
Denis mentions that the screen is dimmer than the Accumatte of Hasselblad (I have the 501CM and 503CW).
Is that correct even on the Rolleiflex 2.8FX?
Will a new screen such as the Beatie make a difference?

Rollei offers a variety of screens including a very bright one. I have the stock screen which is a little less bright and also I have a maxwell screen for the FX. The Maxwell screen is thought to be as bright as the acumatte. It is so bright that it looks about as bright as reality. I find the stock FX screen to be only a little less bright and in fact I have replaced the Maxwell screen with the stock as I like the image quality of it better. I have a 2.8F as well and in that I keep a Maxwell screen which is much better than the older stock screen but the newer stock screen is very good. I think regarding Maxwell vs Beattie they are about the same though it seems the Maxwell has many more supporters with Rolleiflex users.

arigram said:

Regarding the screen.
...
Is that correct even on the Rolleiflex 2.8FX?

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I said "probably"... The previous reply (by dpurdy) provided a more accurate answer. I never compared Hassy and 2.8FX side by side...
So, don't let it worry you too much.

Denis

Btw, is there a flashgun to go with the Rolleiflex for weak fill-in?
Maybe something like this:
http://ia.media-imdb.com/images/M/MV5BMTI2Nzc2ODE2NF5BMl5BanBnXkFtZTYwOTk5NDE3._V1._SY400_SX600_.jpg

I have been following the Rollei market very closely for the last year and half - see

http://members.aol.com/dcolucci/rolleitlr.htm

My observations are that every used model, including GX and FX models have come down in price over the last year. Sure, White Face models still get big $$, but when you consider the quantity of Rolleiflex cameras produced - I feel they are still over priced in the camera collecting/user market. Rollei is the Leica of Medium format - but in terms of production, there are far fewer Leicas than Rolleis.....

My advice is to buy a 3.5F, type III or IV. They have a coupled meter and are built with extremely high standards. The minty GX I owned ( bought for $ 1600 USD ) was very nice, but the classic models seem to have more quality built into them.

Dan

luvcameras said:

My advice is to buy a 3.5F, type III or IV. They have a coupled meter and are built with extremely high standards. The minty GX I owned ( bought for $ 1600 USD ) was very nice, but the classic models seem to have more quality built into them.

Dan

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You can read a lot of people saying that the older Rolleis seem to have more quality. Or the newer ones don't feel as well made. I am not sure. It seems to be an intuitive impression and I wonder how truthful it is or is it more based on how much people love their old well made Rolleis and the more modern feel of the newer ones is just different. I am ridiculously fortunate (to my wifes annoyance) to have both. (She thinks the money could be better spent).

That aside I love the newness of my FX and it doesn't strike me as less well made at all though it is missing a few features. I have a late whiteface 2.8F and the FX. The 2.8F shutter is quieter and smoother and doesn't feel metallic. The FX shutter is snappy and precise and has the feel of precisely sized steel. It reminds me of my view camera shutters.

The 2.8F has auto film sensor so you don't have to line up the arrows, but I prefer lining up the arrows and the FX has never failed to have the film set right for frame #1 whereas the F has blown through several rolls of film with out stopping. I have the 12/24 switch on the F and if you bump it off it's setting it will blow right through a 220 roll without stopping as well.

No one would say that the optics of the new camera seem less well made. the HFT coated Planar is unbeatable. And no one would say that the meter system of the older camera is higher quality than the newer ones. Though the new meter does require a battery. Doesn't bother me as I don't use camera meters and don't even have the battery in.

I asked Harry Fleenor if the film transport of the FX was less well made than the 2.8F or less durable and he said no though the FX film transport is simpler as it has no auto sensor part.

The focus of the FX feels much smoother and easier than the old camera even after Harry CLA'd my 2.8F focus when I first got it. The F takes about twice the effort to turn the focus knob. The F is smooth and easy but the FX is practically effortless.

The WLF on the FX is like the WLF on a T in that it has no focus window for the sprts finder. Other than that it snaps into place and feels just as high quality as an old one.

The chrome trim on the FX is high gloss shiney bright stainless steel. (or looks like it) It just looks modern because the steel or metal on older cameras doesn't have that high gloss surface. I think the modern look of the newer cameras doesn't appeal to a lot of people who love their old world high quality hand crafted Rolleis. Though I am not sure but I think the newer cameras are probably nearly as handcrafted as the old.

Anyway for myself I am going to reserve intuitive judgement about the lessor quality of the newer cameras until I find in use that it doesn't work as well or hold up as long. So far to me the new FX seems very well made.

March 28th in Portland and I am sitting here watching snow come down outside the window. A strange thing indeed.
Dennis

Ok, guys,
I just ordered a new Rolleiflex 2.8 FX.
Since I found a better price because of the weak dollar
from a source not in E.U., I would like all your prayers
and good wishes so as not to have any trouble with the
shipping and customs.
Hope the Gods will be kind to this good hearted mortal...

arigram said:

Ok, guys,
I just ordered a new Rolleiflex 2.8 FX.
Since I found a better price because of the weak dollar
from a source not in E.U., I would like all your prayers
and good wishes so as not to have any trouble with the
shipping and customs.
Hope the Gods will be kind to this good hearted mortal...

Click to expand...

Congratulations! Now you've got me looking at them. Stop the madness!

arigram said:

Ok, guys,
I just ordered a new Rolleiflex 2.8 FX.
Since I found a better price because of the weak dollar
from a source not in E.U., I would like all your prayers
and good wishes so as not to have any trouble with the
shipping and customs.
Hope the Gods will be kind to this good hearted mortal...

Click to expand...

WOW! Congratulations. That is exciting. I hope you like the feel of it. It will come with a strap. The strap is an important part of making sharp handheld photos. Adjust it to the right length that allows you to pull the camera down tightly with the strap around your neck and release the shutter. Hopefully it comes with a shade though mine didn't.

Can't wait to hear how you like it.

Dennis

dpurdy said:

WOW! Congratulations. That is exciting. I hope you like the feel of it. It will come with a strap. The strap is an important part of making sharp handheld photos. Adjust it to the right length that allows you to pull the camera down tightly with the strap around your neck and release the shutter. Hopefully it comes with a shade though mine didn't.

Can't wait to hear how you like it.

Dennis

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Assuming that all will go well and I will be soon have the camera with no further troubles, I am already looking for accessories.
Such as:

- Flash. A small, weak unit for portrait fill in that makes use of TTL.
- Rolleiflex Hard or Soft case. I am not sure which of the two would be better, that is convenient and protective.
- Lens shade, for protection from the sun, such as the greek one.

Any advice?
Thanks for the strap trick Dennis.
(I am not getting excited at the moment. Holding my feelings at bay until I have it and everything's fine)

Advice? Yes, wear white cotton gloves while you play with it. Must not get it dirty.

Lens shade, I have a rubber one for mine, in fact I have a metal one too, but prefer the collapsible rubber shade.

I only other advice I can think of is get out and enjoy it.

Rollei has some flash attachment accesories that allow TTL FLash metering with the right Metz flash. The way it works is they put a hot shoe on the side of the camera and you have to buy this attachment that connects the flash and makes it sit up right on the left side. You can find a standard L bracket instead. I have an L bracket designed for use with a small digital video camera that works perfectly as a handle on the left with a cold shoe. Put any kind of small thyristor flash on there and connect with a PC cord.

I have both the rubber and the metal lens shade as well. The rubber will cost a lot less and it has a more modern look to it. I actually prefer my old metal one because when I put the camera face down to load film it is a solid support that keeps the camera tipped a bit forward.

If you find you like the camera you will want to get a Rolleinar or two for close focus. You can get the old version off ebay though even those are pretty expensive. I saw a pristine #1 go for 100 dollars yesterday. Your Bayonett size is Bay 3. Sometimes seen as R111 or Bay111. I believe Rollei considers the #2 Rolleinar the most useful because they included it with their collector cameras. If you want to shoot something about the size of a small child from waist up you will need the #1 Rolleinar. The lens is sharp enough to consider cropping as a standard tool.

Dennis

Thanks Dennis.
I am not sure if I have a need for any attachments as it will be a street shooting camera and I've found that with the 80 of the Hasselblad, I can cover almost everything when I am out there. After all it will be more in use for environmental portraits and whole scenes. But, if I do find one cheap and in good condition, I might go for it. When I have payed off the Rolleiflex that is.

Both lens shades should interesting.

As for the flash, does the 2.8 FX have a cold or hot shoe? Can you attach any automatic flash on it and fire away with TTL or do you really have to use the SCA adaptor? I have a Metz 45 and a SCA connection for my Hasselblad 503CW but its large, heavy and very cumbersome and I never carry it for street photography or when traveling.
I need something tiny, that doesn't give much light, but is enough for some fill in, if the subject is close to me but shaded.

No experience with the bags?
I see that the hard one leaves some components exposed for use but covers the rest and the soft one covers the whole camera but folds open completely for use. I can't decide between them.

The FX has a normal hot shoe but it is on the side of the camera.. the left side. Which means if you attach a flash to it the flash is sideways and about a half inch below the level of the taking lens. I have not researched the flash accessories much because I either use studio flash or if I need on camera flash I put on the small L bracket. I don't have a picture of it but you see them on ebay, I got mine new in a camera store for 15 dollars. It is much smaller than the large flash brackets you see wedding photographers use. I do believe there are a few Metz flashes that will work TTL with the Rollei FX.

I have no experience with the cases because I don't use one. I keep my camera in a Lowepro case with accessories. To me the Rollei camera case is just another thing I would have to deal with when trying to use the camera. I keep my lowepro bag strap across my chest and carry the bag behind me. The main complaint I have seen with the hard leather ever ready case is that you have to take it off to change film. I have never owned one. I would guess the soft one is less expensive.

There is one thing you might be a bit dissmayed by and that is the tightness of the spring steel anti film slack thing (I don't know what it is really called) When you go to load a new roll of film if you are not used to it it will seem like you have to push the film really hard to get it in place and then when you pull the film leader to connect it to the take up spool it will feel like it is way too tight. I definitely thought something was wrong with my camera at first. But when I got the film started and closed the back up the winder worked smooth and easily. It still seems to tight to me when pulling on the leader but I have read other people say the same thing. Perhaps the extra tighness of the film in the camera is part of the reason it is so sharp wide open. It might eliminate film curl issues. There is a piece of teflon tape on the spring steel tensioner (that is what it is called) that is supposed to help the roll turn smoothly as you advance it.
Dennis

Dennis,
thank you a lot of all the helpful information.

Btw, which Lowepro case do you use for the Rolleiflex?

http://products.lowepro.com/product/Nova 3 AW,1974.htm

There have been a few discussions about choice of bags and a lot of different opinions. I like the Lowepro Nova 3 because it is perfect for everything I want to carry. The interior compartments are variable size and I have a perfect padded spot for the camera in the middle with a perfect fitting pocket for my accessories case and a good pocket for my spot meter on one side and on the other side is a pocket that holds 10 rolls film. Then there is a front compartment that I keep extra filters and note pad in. There is a back pocket with zipper that perfectly holds arline tickets and pass port. The bag is well padded and the strap is wide and padded and the handle on top is soft and perfectly holds a bottle of water. I should be a salesman for them. It is probably more bag than you want for unencombered street photography.
Dennis

Thanks Dennis, that looks like a good bag.
I have all kinds of bags so far, "no-name", Lowepro large shoulder and backpack, billingham shoulder, Peli hard case, one for every occasion! The small "no-name" one is the one I carry for normal street and travel and if it doesn't work for the Rollei, I will consider the one you suggested. Looks non expensive too.

"I want my, I want my, I want my Rolleiflex"
(sang to the tune of "Money for Nothing" by Dire Straits)

Btw, since we're talking bags, how about the Billingham L2:
http://www.robertwhite.co.uk/product.asp?P_ID=612&PT_ID=168&P=Billingham-L2
Its not expensive, its dimensions are a bit tight fit but may be ok and of course is Billingham, which means beautiful!

I have never seen one in my neck of the woods but it looks great and sounds flexible. Long as you get a bag that does what you need and won't damage your camera going in and out.
Dennis

A small followup.
I found this Rolleiflex 2.8FX on ebay:
http://cgi.ebay.com/New-Rolleiflex-...ZWD1VQQ_trksidZp1638.m118.l1247QQcmdZViewItem
for what I thought was a good price worth the risk,
but so far not only I have not received anything, but the
seller keeps telling me every week that "will be send very soon".
I have already emailed him a dozen times and opened a dispute in PayPal,
but I am not optimistic that I will get the camera. Atleast get the money back.
And I have planned to go in debt for a couple years to pay off the camera...

Arigram, I thought you were joking, but you are listed as buyer. I would not have bought from this seller. Not for that value. I really hope it turns up. Best of luck.

keeds said:

Arigram, I thought you were joking, but you are listed as buyer. I would not have bought from this seller. Not for that value. I really hope it turns up. Best of luck.

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Why not from this seller?