Rolleiflex 3.5F Planar bent control board

fafasinho · Oct 30, 2022

Hi everyone,

I got a Rolleiflex 3.5F Planar at a very low price with perfect optics, nevertheless, after having it inspected by a repairman, it seems that the control board is deformed and prevents me from choosing the aperture and exposure time (the controls are very stiff)

The estimate being too expensive for my means (and the fact that he couldn't assure me the camera would be working afterwards) , would someone have knowledge in the field or could redirect me to a resource that could help me?

Thanks in advance

Nitroplait · Oct 30, 2022

In this case qualified repair would be to throw good money after bad, IMO.
I would sell the camera for parts and look for a healthy sample worthy of an overhaul.
Stay away from structural damaged cameras- they are money pits.

Dan Daniel · Oct 30, 2022

Nitroplait said:
In this case qualified repair would be to throw good money after bad, IMO.
I would sell the camera for parts and look for a healthy sample worthy of an overhaul.
Stay away from structural damaged cameras- they are money pits.

Or hold onto it for the lenses if they are very clean. And look for another deal on a decent mechanical camera with bad lenses. But agreed, the odds of there being more and more damage on further work is very good. Bending a lens shroud and jamming up the dials takes some force.

Or move the lenses to a completely different camera like a Minolta Autocord (the 3.5 lenses are similar in diameter to other 3.5 lenses on TLRs; Rollei bumped out the filter mount to Bay II for marketing but just added a doughnut on the bayonet to fill the gap, not make the actual lens mount larger in diameter).

Nitroplait · Oct 30, 2022

Sounds easy Dan, but one has to wonder if it is, and if it is economical - and even if it is, is it worth the trouble?

AgX · Oct 30, 2022

A bent front board may also mean that the lenses are out of alignment.

fafasinho · Oct 30, 2022

Nitroplait said:
In this case qualified repair would be to throw good money after bad, IMO.
I would sell the camera for parts and look for a healthy sample worthy of an overhaul.
Stay away from structural damaged cameras- they are money pits.

It's disapointing to hear but I think you're right and I should just save for a better camera

Thank you

fafasinho · Oct 30, 2022

Dan Daniel said:
Or hold onto it for the lenses if they are very clean. And look for another deal on a decent mechanical camera with bad lenses. But agreed, the odds of there being more and more damage on further work is very good. Bending a lens shroud and jamming up the dials takes some force.

Or move the lenses to a completely different camera like a Minolta Autocord (the 3.5 lenses are similar in diameter to other 3.5 lenses on TLRs; Rollei bumped out the filter mount to Bay II for marketing but just added a doughnut on the bayonet to fill the gap, not make the actual lens mount larger in diameter).

It would be disapointing to do such a repair and then find other problems, I think I'm going for the easiest option and just sell it

fafasinho · Oct 30, 2022

AgX said:
A bent front board may also mean that the lenses are out of alignment.

And out of alignement lenses could prevent the controls from working correctly ?

If so, how could I put them in alignement ?

Dan Daniel · Oct 30, 2022

Nitroplait said:
Sounds easy Dan, but one has to wonder if it is, and if it is economical - and even if it is, is it worth the trouble?

Just a dream of mine- the Autocord focus lever system, which I like for street work, and a Planar lens.

Economical, no. Worth the trouble? All it takes is one person who thinks so and has the parts and enough knowledge to dig a bigger hole. The funnest part would be modifying the viewing lens setup for the 2.8 Rollei lens! Ok, my idea of fun might be a little off....

bernard_L · Oct 31, 2022

fafasinho said:
I got a Rolleiflex 3.5F Planar at a very low price with perfect optics, nevertheless, after having it inspected by a repairman, it seems that the control board is deformed and prevents me from choosing the aperture and exposure time (the controls are very stiff)

The estimate being too expensive for my means (and the fact that he couldn't assure me the camera would be working afterwards) , would someone have knowledge in the field or could redirect me to a resource that could help me?

Thanks in advance

While I agree that there is a hidden risk that there is other damage, like deformation of the lens board, I would attempt to replace that "risk" into a yes/no answer. Assuming that you cans still --despite the stiffness-- move the aperture and shutter controls, you might conduct a few critical focus test at full aperture.

Does infinity focus on the ground glass coincide with the infinity mark on the focus button? Ditto at 5m distance.
Now with film, take pictures of an object such as fence with closely spaced posts, or wire mesh; mark with a stick or a piece of paper the point on which you do the focus; take the picture at a 45° angle.
Inspect (or scan) the developed film. Does the point in the fence with the sharpest focus coincide with the one you focused on? Or is it closer/farther?
Same as above, but face-on; a brick wall will also work. Inspect the corners of the picture.

If your camera passes these tests, you know that there is no (detectable) deformation of the lens assembly. Whether to embark into repairs remains a delicate decision. It also depends on the repair person you are talking to. I see that you are in France; I had experience with one repair shop in Paris that I now consider incompetent and excessively expensive after I had to re-do their repair myself.

Transferring the lenses to an Autocord??? The filter mounts being are somewhat similar does not mean that the interface of the front and rear elements to the shutter/diaphragm assembly (diameter, pitch, axial distance) are identical; a slim chance indeed.

Dan Daniel · Oct 31, 2022

bernard_L said:
Transferring the lenses to an Autocord??? The filter mounts being are somewhat similar does not mean that the interface of the front and rear elements to the shutter/diaphragm assembly (diameter, pitch, axial distance) are identical; a slim chance indeed.

Actually the Seikosha shutter and Compur #00 shutters do have the same diameter, thread pitch, etc. Sure I'd need to confirm lens group spacing. And then see if the Planar would focus to infinity in the travel of the Autocord lens board. I tried a 75mm Heliar from a Bessa 66 and it wouldn't go back to infinity. And then hack in the viewing lens.

fafasinho · Oct 31, 2022

I found the perfect video for my case but sadly the quality is poor and there is no audio, could someone describe me what is done here ?

BrianShaw · Oct 31, 2022

It appears that the plate is being tweaked back to square (flat) by counter bending and comparing with a flat surface so the controls work smoothly and then relubricating the controls.

choiliefan · Oct 31, 2022

If I were doing the repair shown in the video, the compass would slip and skewer my palm. Other than that, you really have nothing to lose by attempting the repair yourself.

Dan Daniel · Oct 31, 2022

BrianShaw said:
It appears that the plate is being tweaked back to square (flat) by counter bending and comparing with a flat surface so the controls work smoothly and then relubricating the controls.

Also, the retaining ring for both taking and viewing lens bayonet mounts, which also capture the gears and indicator plates, are being loosened. The compass is being used as a spanner wrench to loosen these rings.

I wonder if the black material applied to the retaining rings is actually a thread lock so that the rings can be kept loose without coming undone.

250swb · Nov 1, 2022

I've done the same repair on a Yashicamat and to be honest it's not difficult, just keep tweaking the front plate until it conforms to the tolerances of the human eyeball and comparing with a straight edge laid across. It's only a bit of cheap tin so common sense should say when to stop bending. As you can see you don't need to remove the lenses and these can be checked for alignment in-situ. If that video wasn't clear look for a repair video for a Yashicamat and the principles of removing the front plate are exactly the same.

gone · Nov 2, 2022

If the front lens board is not that obviously bent to your eyes, I'd try a roll of film in it, just to see. I had an old Graflex TLR w/ the identical problem. It would have been much easier to fix than your 'flex, but I shot it as it was, and the problem never showed up on the negs. Maybe if the lens were wide open, but most people stop a MF camera down a bit.

fafasinho · Nov 2, 2022

choiliefan said:
If I were doing the repair shown in the video, the compass would slip and skewer my palm. Other than that, you really have nothing to lose by attempting the repair yourself.

Knowing how precious these cameras are, I understand your feelings. I tried it but because I don't have a spanner, I couldn't proceed
I'm going to see another repair shop to get a new quote

250swb said:
I've done the same repair on a Yashicamat and to be honest it's not difficult, just keep tweaking the front plate until it conforms to the tolerances of the human eyeball and comparing with a straight edge laid across. It's only a bit of cheap tin so common sense should say when to stop bending. As you can see you don't need to remove the lenses and these can be checked for alignment in-situ. If that video wasn't clear look for a repair video for a Yashicamat and the principles of removing the front plate are exactly the same.

I tried to do the same but I only have screwdrivers
Depending on the price the other repairsman charges me, I will see what I do

momus said:
If the front lens board is not that obviously bent to your eyes, I'd try a roll of film in it, just to see. I had an old Graflex TLR w/ the identical problem. It would have been much easier to fix than your 'flex, but I shot it as it was, and the problem never showed up on the negs. Maybe if the lens were wide open, but most people stop a MF camera down a bit.

The film advance seems to be working and the shutter speeds seems to be correct too
I might try that even if it isn't the most convinient way

Dan Daniel · Nov 2, 2022

Just to warn you, the F lens shroud is more complex than the E shroud shown in the video. There are gears for the meter coupling that need to be set properly and aligned properly for assembly to happen and for the metering system to work properly. The actual shroud that is bent is similar, but removal and installation will not be simple.

fafasinho · Nov 2, 2022

Dan Daniel said:
Just to warn you, the F lens shroud is more complex than the E shroud shown in the video. There are gears for the meter coupling that need to be set properly and aligned properly for assembly to happen and for the metering system to work properly. The actual shroud that is bent is similar, but removal and installation will not be simple.

In fact the reassembly was very complex but I think I managed to do it properly using the natcam guide and some videos
But I noticed that the distance from the front plate to the base was increased, I sent it to a repair shop to get a quote, if it isn't reasonnable I'm going to give it a second try

What do you think would be a decent price for this repair ?

Rolleiflex 3.5F Planar bent control board

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