Rolleiflex 2.8F aperture and shutter speed wheels are moving

hiroh · May 25, 2022

I'd like to hear from other Rolleiflex (preferably 2.8F) owners if their cameras behave the same, or if this something that could be repaired. When I set my aperture and shutter speed to the desirable position, after couple moments it starts moving. I noticed that's not always the case. Sometimes it stays fixed, sometimes it moves quickly and sometimes after longer period or time.

For example if I set aperture to f8 and ss to 1/8s, in about 10-20 seconds, the aperture will move to f11.

Sometimes I manage to nail it to the position when it doesn't move, but I really have to find that spot and wait to see if it's gonna start moving before I set the focus, grab the cable release and take the picture.

guangong · May 25, 2022

Sounds as if camera needs a CLA. Never had this problem with mine, which have owned since early 1970s. They are extremely well built cameras, but most cameras have crevices which allow dirt can creep into camera.
Do you have a case? A proper camera case can protect camera from the elements as well as little bumps. The 2.8F case is cleverly designed to permit ease of camera operation.

hiroh · May 25, 2022

The thing is that I purchased this camera recently and it came with the CLA certificate done in Czech Republic. But I had this problem since I got it. Now, it may sounds worse than it actually is. I can shoot with this without problems, even handheld, which I do in about 70% cases, but it doesn't feel great. I have other film cameras that doesn't have this problem and I don't have to think about it. Whenever I pick Rolleiflex, I have to turn on the part of the brain to remind me to double check the settings before I press the shutter. Sometimes it doesn't move, sometimes it does. So, I was wondering if this is "by design" in this models, or my camera is faulty.

Good to hear that you never had a problem. I may send it for repair.

Oh, and yes, I have the original case. I use it whenever I'm not using tripod. By the way — had anyone figured out how to shoot with the case on tripod? I guess the answer would be to pierce the hole in the case? Any accessory that allows this?

Dan Daniel · May 25, 2022

Is the depth of field indicator around the inside of the focus knob working?

And the meter itself is registering changes in shutter and aperture?

And to be paranoid, look at the lens from the back and make certain that the aperture is actually opening and closing.

Especially the meter coupling is a fairly stable lever system. Meaning that there aren't springs designed to pull it to one end or other of its travel if not connected. The depth of field indicator has light springs to pull it to the biggest width (f/22 aperture) but the leverage connecting it to the aperture dial should keep it still.

Is the motion always the aperture and always in one direction (to a smaller aperture, e.g. f/11 to f/16)?

All in all, I wouldn't consider it normal for the aperture and/or shutter speeds to move on their own.

hiroh · May 25, 2022

Dan Daniel said:
Is the depth of field indicator around the inside of the focus knob working?

Hi Dan, yes, it’s working. On the widest f2.8 aperture, the distance between two black stripes is around 5-6mm and at the f22 is all the way on the sides.

Dan Daniel said:
And the meter itself is registering changes in shutter and aperture?

Yes. I often rely on this meter when shooting, so I know the meter is working properly.

Dan Daniel said:
And to be paranoid, look at the lens from the back and make certain that the aperture is actually opening and closing.

Yes it does.

Dan Daniel said:
Especially the meter coupling is a fairly stable lever system. Meaning that there aren't springs designed to pull it to one end or other of its travel if not connected. The depth of field indicator has light springs to pull it to the biggest width (f/22 aperture) but the leverage connecting it to the aperture dial should keep it still.

Is the motion always the aperture and always in one direction (to a smaller aperture, e.g. f/11 to f/16)?

Yes, it seems that it’s always the aperture pulling to the left, like you said f11 to f16.

Dan Daniel said:
All in all, I wouldn't consider it normal for the aperture and/or shutter speeds to move on their own.

I guess there’s nothing I can do (with my very limited, or non-existing knowledge of camera repairing?

This is not something that bothers me so much, but I’d like it’s more reliable.

Btw, my camera just returned from the service, where my focus was fixed. It wasn’t CLA, I just needed focus to be fixed, and I totally forgot to mention this.

Dan Daniel · May 25, 2022

So you also mentioned the shutter speed moving? I can understand the aperture moving theoretically, but the shutter speed moving means a lot of very smooth and low-friction transfer of very light spring force.

If both move, does the meter reading stay the same? The needle doesn't move. It moves from f/11 to f/16, and the shutter speed moves one stop in the opposite- say, 1/30 to 1/15? Maintains the same EV?

What I will say is this shouldn't happen. And that you should probably not try to fix it yourself.

guangong · May 25, 2022

Dan Daniel said:
So you also mentioned the shutter speed moving? I can understand the aperture moving theoretically, but the shutter speed moving means a lot of very smooth and low-friction transfer of very light spring force.

If both move, does the meter reading stay the same? The needle doesn't move. It moves from f/11 to f/16, and the shutter speed moves one stop in the opposite- say, 1/30 to 1/15? Maintains the same EV?

What I will say is this shouldn't happen. And that you should probably not try to fix it yourself.

Very thoughtful answer, Dan.

Sean Mac · May 25, 2022

The 2.8F I own is going on a waiting list soon.

Our local expert is apparently a busy man.

I don't want to risk damaging such a fine machine.

The wrong machine to learn on.

Good Luck with it !

hiroh · May 26, 2022

Dan Daniel said:
So you also mentioned the shutter speed moving? I can understand the aperture moving theoretically, but the shutter speed moving means a lot of very smooth and low-friction transfer of very light spring force.

If both move, does the meter reading stay the same? The needle doesn't move. It moves from f/11 to f/16, and the shutter speed moves one stop in the opposite- say, 1/30 to 1/15? Maintains the same EV?

What I will say is this shouldn't happen. And that you should probably not try to fix it yourself.

Dan, you're right, only the aperture moves. I stated wrongfully in the title that both shutter wheel and aperture are moving. In fact I didn't think it matters, in my head those are some wheels that are not staying in place when I want them to

Sean Mac said:
The 2.8F I own is going on a waiting list soon.

Our local expert is apparently a busy man.

I don't want to risk damaging such a fine machine.

The wrong machine to learn on.

Good Luck with it !

When I had a problem with the focus, I contacted every Rolleiflex expert in the US that I can found online, and asked about wait times, and it was months in each case. I was seriously considering buying a new working camera and later selling this one as-is. Then, next day, I went to the local camera store to buy some film, and complained about the focus issue, and they told me they have a guy that repairs Rolleiflexes and can probably do it much quicker. I was reluctant at first, but I wanted the camera asap, and it's a reputable shop, so I gave it a try. I got it back in less than a week. I tested it the same day and it works perfectly.

Dan Daniel · May 26, 2022

hiroh said:
When I had a problem with the focus, I contacted every Rolleiflex expert in the US that I can found online, and asked about wait times, and it was months in each case. I was seriously considering buying a new working camera and later selling this one as-is. Then, next day, I went to the local camera store to buy some film, and complained about the focus issue, and they told me they have a guy that repairs Rolleiflexes and can probably do it much quicker. I was reluctant at first, but I wanted the camera asap, and it's a reputable shop, so I gave it a try. I got it back in less than a week. I tested it the same day and it works perfectly.

The thing is that most any long-term repair shop that dealt with film cameras can deal with Rolleiflexes. If you wanted to stay in business, you worked on Rolleiflexes because there were so many being used by professionals, etc. People can forget this in the age of internet star repairmen, etc. Not to denigrate someone like Fleenor- he does great work and deserves his reputation. But despite the reputation, Rolleiflexes are not difficult cameras; they require attention and precision, but unlike many cameras (looking at you, YashicaMats), they were designed and built to be used, to be adjusted, and to be repaired as working tools.

I took my car to a guy in Vermont. He grew up outside in New Jersey, worked on high-end Italian sports cars. Moved to Vermont and realized quickly that he needed to learn Subarus if he wanted his garage to survive. A camera repair shop in 1970-80s who couldn't work on a Rolleiflex was not going to be around long.

I bet that your shop's guy will take care of this issue smoothly.

hiroh · May 27, 2022

Dan Daniel said:
The thing is that most any long-term repair shop that dealt with film cameras can deal with Rolleiflexes. If you wanted to stay in business, you worked on Rolleiflexes because there were so many being used by professionals, etc. People can forget this in the age of internet star repairmen, etc. Not to denigrate someone like Fleenor- he does great work and deserves his reputation. But despite the reputation, Rolleiflexes are not difficult cameras; they require attention and precision, but unlike many cameras (looking at you, YashicaMats), they were designed and built to be used, to be adjusted, and to be repaired as working tools.

I took my car to a guy in Vermont. He grew up outside in New Jersey, worked on high-end Italian sports cars. Moved to Vermont and realized quickly that he needed to learn Subarus if he wanted his garage to survive. A camera repair shop in 1970-80s who couldn't work on a Rolleiflex was not going to be around long.

I bet that your shop's guy will take care of this issue smoothly.

I agree that there are other people who are not internet stars but can do the equally good, sometimes even better job, but the problems is how to find those people if they even don't have a website, or doesn't advertise as Rolleiflex repairs. I would have to randomly call every camera shop in town and ask if they can do that. But good to know that there are probably more than 5 people in the entire US who does repair Rolleis.

I understand that in order to fix moving aperture, the whole front part would have to be removed, including the leather? My camera is in a pretty nice cosmetic condition, and I don't feel comfortable doing these more complicated repairs if not absolutely necessary. Of course it would be better if it's working smoothly, but it's not that bad as it sounds, and I'm already used to that behavior. So if it requires a lot of work and opening the whole camera, maybe it's better to wait for the next CLA.

guangong · May 27, 2022

M. Zachs did a good CLA job For me in 2019. A friend who worked at Leitz in NJ did a repair on my 2.8F about 45-50 years ago. As with Leica rf cameras, they should be serviced every 30 years or so.
When i read about some of the so-called Rollei specialists and what they charge, I get the feeling that some flim flam is going on.

hiroh · May 27, 2022

guangong said:
M. Zachs did a good CLA job For me in 2019. A friend who worked at Leitz in NJ did a repair on my 2.8F about 45-50 years ago. As with Leica rf cameras, they should be serviced every 30 years or so.
When i read about some of the so-called Rollei specialists and what they charge, I get the feeling that some flim flam is going on.

Yeap, you can buy a new digital camera for the cost of Rolleiflex service. It's a good skill to have these days. Who'd say?

Rolleiflex 2.8F aperture and shutter speed wheels are moving

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