Rollei RPX400 vs. Kentmere 400

montecarlo · Sep 8, 2012

Hello,

I was wondering if the two films mentioned above are the same. In the specs.they seem to have the same developing times. At first I hoped RPX is Agfa APX 400 but after some searh seems that this is not true :-(
Thank you.

subsole · Sep 8, 2012

Yes,it is.
Rollei RPX 100 / 400 = Kentmere 100/400
The only difference is that Kentmere films are not available as 120 roll films.
I haven't tried the RPX 400, but the RPX 100 is quite nice:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/bundesphotograph/7732369484/in/photostream

werra · Sep 8, 2012

RPX has the same base in 120 and 135 formats?

subsole · Sep 8, 2012

werra said:
RPX has the same base in 120 and 135 formats?

120 film is 0,102 mm acetate base
135 film is 0,120 mm acetate base

http://www.macodirect.de/download/TA_RPX_100_gb.pdf
http://www.macodirect.de/download/TA_RPX_400_gb.pdf

lensman_nh · Sep 8, 2012

Bundesphotograph said:
Yes,it is.
Rollei RPX 100 / 400 = Kentmere 100/400
The only difference is that Kentmere films are not available as 120 roll films.
I haven't tried the RPX 400, but the RPX 100 is quite nice:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/bundesphotograph/7732369484/in/photostream

Really?

I thought Ilford did not re-brand house products for resale. I could beleive that Harman coats the material to spec, but I would need to see some confirmation from the source or distributor that is is the same material.

J.

mablo · Sep 8, 2012

Strictly speaking Kentmere is not the same as Ilford and it's not sold under the Ilford brand as you can see on this web page:

http://ilfordphoto.com/products/producttype.asp?n=3&t=Black+&+White+Films

gorbas · Sep 8, 2012

So, who is actually producing those films??? Hartman or Maco?? I'm just in process of testing Kentmere 100. Almost the same price as Arista/Foma 100 @ Freestyle.
Goran

subsole · Sep 8, 2012

mablo said:
Strictly speaking Kentmere is not the same as Ilford and it's not sold under the Ilford brand as you can see on this web page:

http://ilfordphoto.com/products/producttype.asp?n=3&t=Black+&+White+Films

Exactely,Mablo!

RPX are Kentmere emulsions.

subsole · Sep 8, 2012

gorbas said:
So, who is actually producing those films??? Hartman or Maco?? I'm just in process of testing Kentmere 100. Almost the same price as Arista/Foma 100 @ Freestyle.
Goran

Maco doesn't produce film.It's made by Harman (Kentmere/Ilford)in Moberly/England.

mikendawn · Sep 8, 2012

Kentmere can be processed using the same times as Foma..
I developed a roll of Kentmere 400 and used the same times as FOMA400 with excellent results.

Kentmere 400 - Xtol 1+1 - 400ASA - 9:30 @ 20C

http://www.digitaltruth.com/devchart.php?Film=Kentmere&Developer=Xtol&mdc=Search

That's my contribution there.. (Perhaps Foma and Kentmere 400 are the same??)

Compare ID-11 1+1 with Foma400 at 12-13 minutes... and with Kentmere 400... yup, 12-13 minutes
Go figure

Alan W · Sep 8, 2012

It wouldn't surprise me if the French were behind this.

Aurelien · Sep 8, 2012

Who is the French?

pentaxuser · Sep 8, 2012

mablo said:
Strictly speaking Kentmere is not the same as Ilford and it's not sold under the Ilford brand as you can see on this web page:

http://ilfordphoto.com/products/producttype.asp?n=3&t=Black+&+White+Films

Yes but for all practical purposes Kentmere film is produced at Mobberley as is Kentmere paper although and you are quite right on this neither appear under the Ilford banner products on its website. It belongs to the Ilford empire. Each time an APUGer questions something about Kentmere it is Simon Galley of Ilford who comments.

So if others are right that Kentmere 400 film is the same as Rollei then is it the case that Ilford produces Kentmere films in effect as its own product but is contracted to produce Rollei film as someone else's product? If so and the films are the same has Ilford used the Rollei 400 product to market a replica film called Kentmere 400 or given its permission for Rollei to market a replica Kentmere film called Rollei RPX400 and has obligingly produced it to help Rollei?

Seems a strange kind of entrepreneurial relationship?

pentaxuser

michaelbsc · Sep 9, 2012

Aurelien said:
Who is the French?

Those folks across the channel.

You know how we are, always looking for someone to blame.

ath · Sep 9, 2012

pentaxuser said:
[...] has Ilford used the Rollei 400 product to market a replica film called Kentmere 400 or given its permission for Rollei to market a replica Kentmere film called Rollei RPX400 and has obligingly produced it to help Rollei?

AFAIR the Kentmere film appeared on the market before RPX.

Protecting the (high end) Ilford branded products while catering the house brand market with Kentmere to me seems to be a smart business move.

Alan W · Sep 9, 2012

michaelbsc said:
Those folks across the channel.

You know how we are, always looking for someone to blame.

Thanks Michael

cmacd123 · Sep 9, 2012

ath said:
Protecting the (high end) Ilford branded products while catering the house brand market with Kentmere to me seems to be a smart business move.

You will not find it easily on the Ilford site but they also have another line (different again) called ILFORD PAN which they only willing sell in "selected" (mostly third world) markets.

Henning Serger · Sep 11, 2012

montecarlo said:
Hello,

I was wondering if the two films mentioned above are the same.
Thank you.

No, they are definitely not the same films, but different emulsions. If you compare them directly side by side you will see it.
Independant developer manufacturers like Wolfgang Moersch ( www.moersch-photochemie.de ) and Heribert Schain from Spur (www.spur-photo.com ) have intensively tested both the two Kentmere and the two RPX films and say that the emulsions are different (and therefore also different developing times in the Moersch and Spur developers).
Another friend of mine has also tested these films in direct comparison and has confirmed the results from Moersch and Spur.

The RPX films are coated by Harman/Ilfordphoto.
But as Simon Galley always very clearly has said, they will not offer their original Ilford and Kentmere products to other companies.
But they do manufacturing for other companies with different products.

Best regards,
Henning

Peltigera · Sep 12, 2012

pentaxuser said:
Yes but for all practical purposes Kentmere film is produced at Mobberley as is Kentmere paper although and you are quite right on this neither appear under the Ilford banner products on its website. It belongs to the Ilford empire. Each time an APUGer questions something about Kentmere it is Simon Galley of Ilford who comments.

So if others are right that Kentmere 400 film is the same as Rollei then is it the case that Ilford produces Kentmere films in effect as its own product but is contracted to produce Rollei film as someone else's product? If so and the films are the same has Ilford used the Rollei 400 product to market a replica film called Kentmere 400 or given its permission for Rollei to market a replica Kentmere film called Rollei RPX400 and has obligingly produced it to help Rollei?

Seems a strange kind of entrepreneurial relationship?

pentaxuser

Ilford Photo is a trading name of Harman technology and they can only use the Ilford name on those items they took over from Ilford Imaging. Their own products (Kentmere) cannot be called Ilford. Harman (trading as Ilford Photo) make the Kentmere films. Rollei don't make anything.

Roger Cole · Sep 12, 2012

Peltigera said:
Ilford Photo is a trading name of Harman technology and they can only use the Ilford name on those items they took over from Ilford Imaging. Their own products (Kentmere) cannot be called Ilford. Harman (trading as Ilford Photo) make the Kentmere films. Rollei don't make anything.

Are you saying they can never produce a brand new product and call it Ilford?

lensman_nh · Sep 12, 2012

Roger Cole said:
Are you saying they can never produce a brand new product and call it Ilford?

That is my understanding also. The original Ilford is still around and predominantly into Inkjet related products like ink and paper [see www.ilford.com]. There is a reason that Harman sells its inkjet products under the Harman label. Anything completely new would probably have to be under the Kentmere label (or Harman). Simon could clarify no doubt.

Simon R Galley · Sep 12, 2012

Any monochrome photographic product now or developed in the future and manufactured by HARMAN can be called ILFORD if we so choose.

We choose to maintain the KENTMERE brand ( and their products ) as it is an excellent and valued analog brand. In most cases worldwide it is also sold down a different distribution route to the ILFORD Brand.

Our inkjet coatings use the HARMAN brand.

Simon ILFORD Photo / HARMAN technology Limited :

Terry Christian · Sep 12, 2012

Just because two films have the same developing times, does not mean they are the same. Look at several films with the same speed and similar grain structures and you'll see the developing times are nearly identical for a given developer.

Rollei RPX400 vs. Kentmere 400

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