Rollei Retro 80S Stupid Mistake (120 roll film)

Svenedin · Apr 2, 2016

I was using some Rollei films today. I shot 2 rolls of Rollei Infrared (I though it was great fun, a few pictures posted to Experimental Gallery) and a roll of Retro 80s. I had ordered the 80S at the same time as the infrared and wondered whether it might be similar to the Agfa films I liked many years ago (perhaps not).

Anyway, I made the most idiotic mistake loading the 80S. The backing paper starts green so I fed the leader into the take-up spool and started winding. Then it changes to black but there are no arrows so I stupidly thought that the transition from green to black must be the start. It is not the start! The result of this error were 2 missed frames at the start and 10 overlapping images on the rest of the film. When I looked at the negatives I retrieved the backing paper from the bin and found the vertical start arrow -I had not wound on far enough (and I should have known really but I had never used this film before).

As there are no horizontal arrows guiding the user to keep winding on this would be really difficult to use in a camera with red windows as the vertical start arrow would suddenly appear without warning. Hardly very retro......

Sirius Glass · Apr 2, 2016

I have had similar problems with the Rollei 120 films. Their papers have a plethora of a lack of useful information and labeling such as lack of arrows, starting points, type of film, film speed, ... It is hard to find another film manufacturer that treats is products and customers with such complete disdain.

Svenedin · Apr 3, 2016

Sirius, I have complained to the supplier. I doubt it will make any difference but I found it annoying. I have never really used anything but Ilford films in 120 so I was not expecting this. They were only pictures from a walk locally. Nothing important but even so I would have preferred not to have seen a ruined film when the negatives seemed to have come out quite well and I had wasted my time both taking the photos and developing the film. It is fortunate I was not on holiday but then I had been it would have been foolish to experiment with an unfamiliar film.

Svenedin · Apr 4, 2016

I received this e-mail from my supplier. No replacement film offered though:

"We have already passed these comments on to Rollei about the backing paper. I agree with your views.
The film was originally made by Efke in Croatia but now is Agfa and needs to be perfected. Thanks for your persistence – when you do succeed it’s a wonderful film if this helps."

pentaxuser · Apr 4, 2016

Svenedin said:
I was using some Rollei films today. I shot 2 rolls of Rollei Infrared (I though it was great fun, a few pictures posted to Experimental Gallery) and a roll of Retro 80s. I had ordered the 80S at the same time as the infrared and wondered whether it might be similar to the Agfa films I liked many years ago (perhaps not).

Anyway, I made the most idiotic mistake loading the 80S. The backing paper starts green so I fed the leader into the take-up spool and started winding. Then it changes to black but there are no arrows so I stupidly thought that the transition from green to black must be the start. It is not the start! The result of this error were 2 missed frames at the start and 10 overlapping images on the rest of the film. When I looked at the negatives I retrieved the backing paper from the bin and found the vertical start arrow -I had not wound on far enough (and I should have known really but I had never used this film before).

As there are no horizontal arrows guiding the user to keep winding on this would be really difficult to use in a camera with red windows as the vertical start arrow would suddenly appear without warning. Hardly very retro......

pentaxuser · Apr 4, 2016

Svenedin, your pics in the gallery have made me think about Rollei film but can I clarify a couple of points?

The Rollei 80S gives no warning such as dots, circles arrows getting bigger but suddenly in the red window there appears the start line. Is this line the correct position for frame 1 i.e. there is no frame number at the start but presumably there are frame numbers for frames 2 etc or is it a line in each frames case? If there are frame numbers do they suddenly appear without prior warning also?

Is the Rollei Infrared film the same or is this one properly marked on the back i.e. like Ilford, Kodak etc

I have a red window camera( Agfa Isolette 1) which would be affected and a P645N which after winding in daylight to the start line is then placed in the camera and the rest is automatic so isn't affected as long as the start line is clear.
Thanks.

pemtaxuser

PS If you have the time and inclination a picture of the backing paper might be helpful

Thanks again

Svenedin · Apr 4, 2016

@pentaxuser: The Rollei Retro 80S has no arrows or lines until the vertical start arrow. The reason I became confused is because the paper changes from green to black and I thought that was the start point. This confused the frame counter of my camera (which automatically counts frames) and ruined the film because the pictures overlapped. It shouldn't matter that there are no arrows until the vertical start arrow with a "red window" type camera because you would usually have the back open until you see that arrow, then close the back and wind on until you see "1" in the red window. It mattered in my case because the start arrow has to be aligned with a mark on the film gate before the back is closed so that the counter counts the frames properly and winds on the correct distance. I just made a silly mistake. The other backing paper markings are odd too; the dots get smaller as you approach each frame number rather than bigger as they do on Ilford films (I just checked), I attach some pictures (I went through the bin to find this). The Rollei Infrared 400 does not have this odd leader on the roll but the dots get smaller as you get nearer each frame number as with the 80S.

Another thing about the 80S and Infrared is that they are on a polyester base. You may or not like this. Some people say polyester base films are a pain to load onto reels but I didn't find this. They are perhaps more prone to light-piping and so you should be especially careful to load in subdued light with the infrared. I went in the shade and changed rolls inside my rucksack. I don't know whether it was strictly necessary but it seemed a wise precaution and Rollei say to be careful.

Sirius Glass · Apr 4, 2016

Rollei Retro 80S would be suitable for toilet paper if it were not so hard and fold with sharp edges. YMMV

Svenedin · Apr 4, 2016

Sirius Glass said:
Rollei Retro 80S would be suitable for toilet paper if it were not so hard and fold with sharp edges. YMMV

Rather expensive for that purpose.....I do quite like like the film though, not really sure why but I was quite pleased with what I salvaged from the disaster roll of 80S. I was really happy with the Infrared that Pentaxuser mentioned.

pentaxuser · Apr 4, 2016

Thanks for the explanation and pics, Svenedin. As far as my P645n is concerned it looks as if I just do what I do with any other 120 film I load, namely wind in subdued light until the arrow aligns with the mark in the insert then put the film insert into the camera. The P645n camera does the rest.

Effectively I can also do the same with my Agfa Isolette except that once I have ensured that the backing paper is attached to the receiving spool I can shut the door and watch carefully as the arrow and then the first number comes into the window. This is just as I have to do with Ilford etc but remembering that the dots get smaller rather than bigger.

pentaxuser

ic-racer · Apr 4, 2016

Reminds me of my trip to Europe in 1985. I had not used Plus-X 220 previously, but I bought a bunch of rolls. I missed the 'real' start mark on all of them. As I recall they had a line of dots across the paper about 2 winds prior to the start arrow.

Svenedin · Apr 4, 2016

@pentaxuser: Glad that was useful. That's why I posted: to save someone else messing up a roll. If we both get to like this film and get used to its quirks they'll probably change it!

@ic-racer : Yes, I wish it was standardised!

Molli · Apr 4, 2016

Svenedin said:
@pentaxuser: The Rollei Retro 80S has no arrows or lines until the vertical start arrow. The reason I became confused is because the paper changes from green to black and I thought that was the start point. This confused the frame counter of my camera (which automatically counts frames) and ruined the film because the pictures overlapped. It shouldn't matter that there are no arrows until the vertical start arrow with a "red window" type camera because you would usually have the back open until you see that arrow, then close the back and wind on until you see "1" in the red window. It mattered in my case because the start arrow has to be aligned with a mark on the film gate before the back is closed so that the counter counts the frames properly and winds on the correct distance. I just made a silly mistake. The other backing paper markings are odd too; the dots get smaller as you approach each frame number rather than bigger as they do on Ilford films (I just checked), I attach some pictures (I went through the bin to find this). The Rollei Infrared 400 does not have this odd leader on the roll but the dots get smaller as you get nearer each frame number as with the 80S.

Another thing about the 80S and Infrared is that they are on a polyester base. You may or not like this. Some people say polyester base films are a pain to load onto reels but I didn't find this. They are perhaps more prone to light-piping and so you should be especially careful to load in subdued light with the infrared. I went in the shade and changed rolls inside my rucksack. I don't know whether it was strictly necessary but it seemed a wise precaution and Rollei say to be careful.

With the exception of that green starting section (which I'm sure would have thrown me for a loop also), the markings appear to be identical to Shanghai GP3 100, although the Rollei does seem to have slightly better contrast. The Shanghai is like battleship grey on charcoal grey. Not fun with old red window cameras. I find myself rather stupidly angling the window into the sun when winding on in a vain attempt to read the numbers.

Svenedin · Apr 4, 2016

@Molli : It is white on black markings but black on white is easier with red window I think. I don't know why they didn't just continue the green up to the start arrow as it would have made far more sense especially as the green has white bands that suggest winding. I should have "known" that the green section was far too short but I don't "know' with films I've never used before.....

Molli · Apr 4, 2016

That's why I appreciate your post and photos so much; I have one solitary roll of Rollei Retro myself and, as mentioned, I'd have probably made the same assumption you did. With just the one roll, guesswork may well have been a disaster. So, many thanks for your contribution to the knowledge pool. I'm grateful!

Svenedin · Apr 4, 2016

@Molli : You are very welcome

Rollei Retro 80S Stupid Mistake (120 roll film)

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