Rollei Retro 100 Tonal

filmamigo · May 4, 2010

I apologize if this is old news, but I can't find any information about "Rollei Retro 100 Tonal" film. It was mentioned on pnet, and I came to APUG expecting the definitive information about a new film stock. But I can't find anything.

Anyone have the scoop?

Dave (someone who loved APX 100 and 400.)

Aurelien · May 4, 2010

It's a bit early...

Namir · May 4, 2010

maco stated (at "aphog", which has nothing to do with "apug"), that it is the same film, that they sold as "maco PO 100c" before. Besides the name it seems not to have very much in common with Retro 100. But maybe a nice film though.

There are plans to revive APX 100 and 400, if I interpret it in the right way, it will be called (Agfaphoto) APX 100 & 400 resp. Adox AP 100 / 400.

AgX · May 5, 2010

Maco did not say its the same film but one with same characteristics...

As Aurelien indicated it is still to come. June has been stated as time of introduction.

RobertV · May 5, 2010

Well the PO 100C (Efke emulsion) film was a very nice film with specifications like the Acros 100 from Fuji but had some problems in 2002-2004. One was the Q.C. of the emulsion and they had once a big batch configured with nasty 35mm cassettes. They were simply stucked halfway which was a very bad experience.
However Rollei/Maco has now a state of the art new 35mm configuration plant in Bergheim, Germany.
If Efke can made a good job on the emulsion side this can be a very nice film. It seems to be it will be available in 35mm, 120 roll film (assembled by Efke or Foma) and 4x5", 9x12cm, 5x7" and 8x10".

So hope for the best at Photokina time in Cologne/Köln.

Best regards,

Robert

(Has already some PO100C as test material available)

RobertV · May 10, 2010

RobertV said:
Well the PO 100C (Efke emulsion) film was a very nice film with specifications like the Acros 100 from Fuji but had some problems in 2002-2004. One was the Q.C. of the emulsion and they had once a big batch configured with nasty 35mm cassettes. They were simply stucked halfway which was a very bad experience.
However Rollei/Maco has now a state of the art new 35mm configuration plant in Bergheim, Germany.
If Efke can made a good job on the emulsion side this can be a very nice film. It seems to be it will be available in 35mm, 120 roll film (assembled by Efke or Foma) and 4x5", 9x12cm, 5x7" and 8x10".

So hope for the best at Photokina time in Cologne/Köln.

Best regards,

Robert

(Has already some PO100C as test material available)

Some small corrections: The film will be made by Agfa Gevaert in Belgium, 120 roll film configuration can be done by Foma or Efke and after the Photokina 2010 the film availability in sheet film will be 4x5" and 8x10" first. Interesting is the price level of this film in all these configurations comparing with the Fuji Acros 100.

Aurelien · May 11, 2010

This film will be released around the photokina, in october/november.

If you wan't to buy it, I think that guys, like Robert, or me, will be able to sell it as rollei partners

werra · May 11, 2010

RobertV said:
Well the PO 100C (Efke emulsion) film was a very nice film with specifications like the Acros 100 from Fuji

Do these specifications include reciprocity characteristics of Acros?

RobertV · May 13, 2010

Do these specifications include reciprocity characteristics of Acros?

No this is not the case.

Some configurations of PO 100C/ Rollei Retro 100 Tonal will be available up from June 2010. In November 2010 all configurations should be available: 35mm, bulk 100ft/30,5m, 120 roll film, 4x5" and 8x10".
I am just testing the 4x5" and 120 roll film version in 6x7cm in my 667 camera.

Best regards,

Robert

cmo · May 13, 2010

As we all know Maco is not a film manufacturer but a marketing company that relabels mainly Agfa films (and many of us remember massive surreptitious advertising for their products in many forums including APUG).

It will be interesting to find out what is really inside the film cartridge. So, what orthochromatic or similar films on a polyester base around ISO 100 are currently offered by Agfa, probably industrial or surveillance film? I bet it will be one of those.

It's quite funny that once again someone tries to warp reality in a way to sell a "legitimate successor" of a totally different product.

There will be plenty of discussions this year about original APX vs. Maco's relabeled Agfa films vs. Adox' films made on the used Agfa machines vs. all other films around 100 ASA.

But in the meanwhile the bar was raised by the new Tmax 400 - it looks like a good 100 ASA film, it's easy to get the right exposure, it's easy to process. So, why bother for 100 ASA? If I want an even finer grain and sharpness well beyond an old APX 100 I use a Tmax 100 (panchromatic) and an Acros (somewhat ortho), both of them outclass all APX-style films - old or new, faked or not.

kompressor · May 13, 2010

I will be able to test 10 rolls of this film next week. So i will post my testresults and experiences here on APUG.

RobertV · May 13, 2010

As we all know Maco is not a film manufacturer but a marketing company that relabels mainly Agfa films

Well this film you will not find in any regular production because it's an own receipture of the Maco company.

Agfa will do a special production, Efke is involved for sheet and the roll film. Photostar will do the 35mm confectioning and due to the high investments more companies are involved in this project.

Rollei Retro 100 Tonal will be PO100C compatible. I made some measurements of the pre-production series and the film is in all specs.

Daylight iso 100-200
Tungsten light iso 50-100
260lp/mm in 1:1000 contrast
380nm-610-625nm
Polyester 100um
Polyester 175um (sheet film)

35mm, bulk 30,5m, 120 roll film, sheet film 4x5" and 8x10"

Reference developer: RHS/AM74
1+7 5 minutes, E.I. 100
1+9 6 minutes, E.I. 100

Official introduction: Photokina 2010. In November all formats will be available.

Peter Schrager · May 14, 2010

regardles of what the film may or may not turn out to be the fact that we as photographers have "more" choices is exemplery
Best, Peter

cmo · May 14, 2010

kompressor said:
I will be able to test 10 rolls of this film next week. So i will post my testresults and experiences here on APUG.

If the film is available in months and you get the films next week, how is your connection with the supplier?

RobertV · May 14, 2010

If the film is available in months

In June 120 roll film and 4x5" will be available. First stock is comming in now. It will be available via maco.direct and the regular Rollei-Maco distributors.

kossi008 · May 28, 2010

cmo said:
But in the meanwhile the bar was raised by the new Tmax 400 - it looks like a good 100 ASA film, it's easy to get the right exposure, it's easy to process. So, why bother for 100 ASA? If I want an even finer grain and sharpness well beyond an old APX 100 I use a Tmax 100 (panchromatic) and an Acros (somewhat ortho), both of them outclass all APX-style films - old or new, faked or not.

It's a matter of taste, isn't it? And sharpness and grain aren't everything. I, for one, love the APX 100 for its tonality. For the same reason I'm also playing with Efke/Adox 25 even though it is not excelling in the sharpness/grain department either... compared to other low-iso films, that is...

Aurelien · May 28, 2010

I just received some samples in 120 and 4*5 inch. Can't wait to try

RobertV · May 28, 2010

Can't wait to try

Well a raw scan (6x7cm) from Rollei Retro 100 Tonal. Souped in AM74/RHS 1+9 6:00 minutes.
Subject: River Labe/Elbe.

Compared to the Rollei Retro 100 (APX 100) less grain and also a large tonality.

The Polyester 100 micron base is pretty flat but keep the backing paper tight on the roll because the base is clear and you do not want to fog the last negative.

werra · May 28, 2010

RobertV said:
Well a raw scan (6x7cm) from Rollei Retro 100 Tonal. Souped in AM74/RHS 1+9 6:00 minutes.

Not bad at all. Any tests how the stuff would work in Rodinal?

RobertV · May 28, 2010

Any tests how the stuff would work in Rodinal?

What I have for you for this new film on developing data:

Dev.___Retro 100 Tonal iso____Time

AM74/RHS_1+7____100_______5:00
AM74/RHS_1+9____100_______6:00
Rodinal_1+25______80_______8:00
CG512/RLS 1+4____50_______14:00 (24 degrees C.)
D76/ID11_stock____100_______7:00
Xtol_1+2_________100_______16:00
Perceptol_stock____50________9:00
HC-110_dil.B______100_______5:00
Microphen_stock___200_______7:00

cmo · May 28, 2010

RobertV said:
Well a raw scan (6x7cm) from Rollei Retro 100 Tonal. Souped in AM74/RHS 1+9 6:00 minutes.
Subject: River Labe/Elbe.

Compared to the Rollei Retro 100 (APX 100) less grain and also a large tonality.

The Polyester 100 micron base is pretty flat but keep the backing paper tight on the roll because the base is clear and you do not want to fog the last negative.

What do you want to prove with a tiny 132KB photo from a scan? Quality? Great tonality? Sharpness? Fine grain?

werra · May 28, 2010

The original on the flickr is quite a bit larger.

cmo · May 28, 2010

werra said:
The original on the flickr is quite a bit larger.

Thanks for the hint, now it's possible to look at it in detail.

On the Flickr image you can really see that a scan from a 6x7cm negative of that film causes a lot of grain for 6x7cm. If I scan such a big negative using FP4 I get practically no grain at that size, with Tmax 100 literally no grain at all. It looks like an average scan from an average 35mm negative. I can do better with Tri-X in 35mm.

Now, where is the progress when a 6x7 cm negative causes as much grain as a 35mm negative? "Tonality"? It's not different than with any other b/w film, and on the branches you can easily see that the images was sharpened.

Or is this simply a way of trying to plant surreptitious advertising on APUG - and that it turns into a barrel burst?

Thomas.Goehler · May 28, 2010

I can't see anything on flickr. has the picture already been removed? If so, very bad style!

David A. Goldfarb · May 28, 2010

Thomas.Goehler said:
I can't see anything on flickr. has the picture already been removed? If so, very bad style!

Judge for yourself--

http://www.flickr.com/photos/fotohuisrovo/4646779241/sizes/o/

Rollei Retro 100 Tonal

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