Rollei Pan 25 - what developer ?

Paul Ozzello · Nov 15, 2012

Hi all,

I have a few rolls of Rollei Pan 25/120 but don't know what developer to use. I've used D-76/Delta 100 for years but not sure if D-76 would be a good fit with the Rollei. I also have some Blazinol I've never tried (Rodinal replacement), and the Maco website suggests Rollei RLS which I don't have...

Any recommendations ? If I use the Blazinal, 1:25 or 1:50?

Thanks

Paul

Роберт · Nov 15, 2012

Rollei Pan 25 (v2) after approx. 2009 is equal to Efke 25 film. So you can use succesfully Rodinal, Tetenal Neofin Blue, Beutler or FX-1 for this slow speed film.

Stephanie Brim · Nov 15, 2012

Rodinal. RODINAL. Or Adonal. Or any other Rodinal clone.

Роберт · Nov 15, 2012

Rollei Pan 25 (v1), introduced approx. in 2005/2006 was a modified NP15 emulsion from OrWo Filmotec. This version was a little bit less grainy and the film could be succesfully developed in any Pyrocatechine developer. Here an example (35mm) in AM50, a Pyrocatechine non-staining developer of Amaloco.

Rhodes · Nov 15, 2012

Rodinal 1+50! Case closed!

DREW WILEY · Nov 15, 2012

The Rollei Pan 25 I purchased and tried just last year was definitely not Efke 25; but I did use both
on the same trip, and developed both in my usual PMK pyro with excellent results.

Curt · Nov 15, 2012

Rhodes said:
Rodinal 1+50! Case closed!

Correct!

Pioneer · Nov 15, 2012

I used Adotech with great success but it has since been reformulated.

Роберт · Nov 16, 2012

Rodinal / R09 o.s. 1+50 and Efke 25 / Rollei Pan 25 (v2) is around 8 minutes while the Rollei Pan 25 (v1) is around 11 minutes. So using the new version (2) on the old Rollei Pan 25 data sheet you will have as result a severe over-developed film.

Paul Ozzello · Nov 16, 2012

Wow - thanks for all the quick replies !

So Rodinal 1:50 it is ! I believe I have V2 - bought it recently from B&H :

So 8 minutes at 20C ?

And why 1:50 instead of 1:25 ?!

Paul

Paul Ozzello · Nov 16, 2012

Роберт said:
Rollei Pan 25 (v1), introduced approx. in 2005/2006 was a modified NP15 emulsion from OrWo Filmotec. This version was a little bit less grainy and the film could be succesfully developed in any Pyrocatechine developer. Here an example (35mm) in AM50, a Pyrocatechine non-staining developer of Amaloco.

View attachment 59771

There goes the rest of my day...

Роберт · Nov 16, 2012

Rodinal / R09 o.s. you can use 1+10 (paper) from 1+25 (film) , 1+50, 1+100 or even more in dilution. Just remember to use at least 5ml-5,5ml for each 135-36 or 120 roll film (equivalent surface area) concentrate Rodinal. In a higher dilution the sharpness will increase and above 1+75 you can get even some staining effects. Also 1+50 has a more compensating effect then a 1+25 dilution. Rodinal / R09 o.s. is a high acutance type developer. Apart from the mentioned characteristics a higher dilution will give less contrast hence some people are using 1+150 for micro film development or Technical Pan films.

Rollei Advanced Technical Pan (ATP1.1) in Rodinal 1+150 for 6:30 minutes at 20C.

georg16nik · Nov 16, 2012

Роберт said:
Rollei Pan 25 (v1), introduced approx. in 2005/2006 was a modified NP15 emulsion from OrWo Filmotec. This version was a little bit less grainy and the film could be succesfully developed in any Pyrocatechine developer. Here an example (35mm) in AM50, a Pyrocatechine non-staining developer of Amaloco.

View attachment 59771

ORWO NP15 was a good film, I still have a stash in the freezer from the late 80's and the last batch in the early 90's.
I think both Adox Pan 25 and Rollei Pan 25 v1 reminded me of NP15.
Too bad Adox and Rollei do not offer it anymore, the EFKE substitution was good in its own way but not the same thing and with the Fotokemika bust, its soon to be gone from the stores..

Agfa copex-rapid is quite something and probably the only thing left, that reminds me of Agfa APX 25 and ORWO NP15 but much sharper and faster, at ISO 40.

Thou, EFKE ortho vibe will be missed. I wonder if Foma think there is market..

Роберт · Nov 16, 2012

I wonder if Foma think there is market..

There is certainly a small iso 25 market. Maybe too small for Ilford / Harman to introduce a Delta 25 film. Maybe a possibility for a new Fomapan 25 film or re-introduce the OrWo Filmotec NP15 emulsion.
You can also try the Agfa Gevaert emulsion (Rollei) Retro 80S which has an E.I. of 50 in most developers and is a very fine grained cubical type film too or pull an Acros 100 in an Ultra Fine Grain type developer. Copex, ATP1.1 or CMS20 is another solution but in fact you need a special developer for it and all micro films have problems in a high contrast light scene.

georg16nik · Nov 16, 2012

Роберт said:
There is certainly a small iso 25 market. Maybe too small for Ilford / Harman to introduce a Delta 25 film. Maybe a possibility for a new Fomapan 25 film or re-introduce the OrWo Filmotec NP15 emulsion.
You can also try the Agfa Gevaert emulsion (Rollei) Retro 80S which has an E.I. of 50 in most developers and is a very fine grained cubical type film too or pull an Acros 100 in an Ultra Fine Grain type developer. Copex, ATP1.1 or CMS20 is another solution but in fact you need a special developer for it and all micro films have problems in a high contrast light scene.

Thanks Роберт,
I am using almost all Agfa-Gevaert films (including CMS20) since their introduction. There are some examples I have posted on APUG.
Retro 80S and Superpan 200 are fine grained near IR capable films and there are lots of possibilities with them.
Retro 80S looks best to my eye in A49 or SPUR SD 2525, great film! Superpan 200 @ ISO 100 is great in almost all developers and really shines in medium format.

ROL · Nov 16, 2012

It has been my understanding that Rollei Pan 25 is repackaged 120 Maco UP 25 (see here). The Eastern European Maco was fine grained panchromatic film capable of stunning enlargements comparable to the much lamented AgfaPan APX 25. It also suffered from less than stellar quality control, much the same as the Rollei offering. Rodinal gives excellent, if not the finest grained results. PMK Pyro may be preferable for the greatest enlargement potential.

East Lake
(Rollei Pan R25 120, PMK Pyro)

Floating Erratics & Cumulus, Tenaya Lake
(Maco UP25+ 120, Rodinal 1:100)

Paul Ozzello · Nov 16, 2012

Роберт said:
Rodinal / R09 o.s. 1+50 and Efke 25 / Rollei Pan 25 (v2) is around 8 minutes while the Rollei Pan 25 (v1) is around 11 minutes. So using the new version (2) on the old Rollei Pan 25 data sheet you will have as result a severe over-developed film.

Is this from personal experience ? I can't find any charts that refer to 8 minutes...

Роберт · Nov 17, 2012

Digital Truth is also giving this time for Efke 25 in Rodinal / R09 1+50.

Paul Ozzello · Nov 19, 2012

Роберт said:
Digital Truth is also giving this time for Efke 25 in Rodinal / R09 1+50.

I wrote to Maco but I'll try 8 minutes if I don't get a reply. What's confusing is that the Maco website describes the 'current' version of Rollei Pan 25 as the equivalent of Efke 25 but still links to a development chart for Rollei Pan 25 (which is the 'old' v1 version ?)

http://www.macodirect.de/rollei-p-412.html

Paul

DREW WILEY · Nov 19, 2012

ROL - last year I took my Ebony w a 6x9 holder with Efke 25, Pan F, and Efke 25 up behind Mineral
King for about a week in mostly wild weather (lots of rain & snow). The effective speed and capacity for detail was about the same for all three, but each with a very different characteristic curve. I dev all 3 in PMK. The Rollei was a bit disappointing in terms of deep shadow detail - a bit more of a toe than I like in a high country film. Pan F has a very short straight line, of course, but is nice in lower contrast settings like mist (there was plenty of that on the passes). I still have a fair amt of Efke 25 in the freezer, but it's very subject to light piping, so has to be loaded in deep shade; but it has a wonderful scale and can handle extreme contrast well. Don't know what I'll choose next time - maybe just stick to 4x5 and a film tent so I don't have this dilemma.

Роберт · Nov 20, 2012

Is this from personal experience ?

Yes, also personal experience. And for this big difference you do not need any densitometer so see the difference. It is huge. Good point you refer to the Maco website where it is clearly shown that the Pan 25 (v2) film is 1:1 Efke 25 identical.

A few years ago Efke changed the layer for 35mm and 120 roll film to Clear Polyester so these type of films you have to take care of the "light piping " effect. The same for the Agfa Gevaert , Rollei emulsions: CN200 (C41), Redbird (C41, reverse CN200 emulsion), CR200 (E6, older RSXII 200 Agfa type emulsion), Retro 80S, Super pan 200 (identical to Retro 400S), Retro 400S and IR-400(S). All on Clear polyester layer. (S) = Synthetic.

Paul Ozzello · Nov 21, 2012

Роберт, thanks for all your valuable information, I developed a test roll last night 8 minutes @ 20C - perfect negatives !

Paul

ROL · Nov 21, 2012

DREW WILEY said:
ROL - last year I took my Ebony w a 6x9 holder with Efke 25, Pan F, and Efke 25...

Presently, I've given up on all but Ilford (Pan F+) and a few remaining rolls of Rollei in 120, for the reasons given in my preceding link. Pyro pretty much makes a big (double entendre) difference in enlarging potential:

Banner Peak Clearing, Island Pass
120 Pan F+, PMK Pyro (1:2:100, N+1)
printed to 24" x 40" (scan from 6x10)

East Creek
120 Pan F+, Rodinal (1:50, N)
printed to 15" x 24" (scan from 6x10)

Rollei Pan 25 - what developer ?

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