Rollei IR400, 87 filter, stand development

Murray@uptowngallery · Feb 7, 2008

Living dangerously. I bought ONE roll of Rollei IR400, probably not enough to figure out exposure.

To maximize my chance of success, I'm thinking over a few ideas.

2) I have a 'mystery' IR filter from eBay, described as 760 nm cutoff, best guess is close to an 87. I thought this would work with the IR400, but lately I hear it's now called 'near-IR'. I knew the filter would work with HIE, but now I'm not sure about the IR400. Is an 87 filter response outside the IR400's range? I saw a spectral plot that showed it reaching about 50% response between 750 and 800 nm, but maybe that's changed. Maybe I should just use a 25 red?

3) Winter in Michigan: Maybe waiting until there is more than one cloud visible in the sky?

4) Given the gamble in getting exposure figured out, is stand development a usable 'crutch' for ambiguous EI situations like this?

Thank you

BarryWilkinson · Feb 7, 2008

Well I have only exposed one roll of Rollei IR400 so far. I used a Wratten 89B equivalent (Cokin Z007, cut off at 720nm). I exposed frames at ISO6 & 12. Developed in Rollei HS at the recommended times and...

Severely under exposed negs, not worth printing.

Stand development, probably not worth it with one roll!

Barry

martinhughesireland · Feb 7, 2008

I haven't used a 760nm rated filter.

I have used the Hoya R72 (720nm) with Rollei IR400. I rate the film at ISO 12 and bracket one stop either side (even more till you understood the film). If using a TTL meter make sure all filters are off the camera when setting aperture/shutter speed. I then develop it in Rollei RHS 1+7 for 6 minutes and get great results

If your using a 760nm filter i would rate the ISO lower say around ISO 6 and bracket a stop or two either side.

M

Murray@uptowngallery · Feb 7, 2008

Thank you both.

I just found a Robert Vonk post on photo.net that seemed to feel pretty strongly that film is blind above 750 nm.

Given the filters I have at hand, I'll probably try a couple shots with the 760 nm filter, some with the 25 red, and for the fun of it, a blue & red combined if I can mechanically arrange it. I recall a thread on another site about combining multiple layers of Lee red and blue filters to block visible light but pass IR.

Since I'm not going to master this film with one roll, maybe I should just try every creative thing I can think of...if I can't have a controlled experiment, why not an out of control one? If I see anything promising, I can then pursue it further. 8 x 6x9 on 120 doesn't give me a lot of choices, however.

I think I bought a single roll to limit my losses...kind of like slot machines with one pocket of change only, no wallet.

I'll aim for a day with some kind of detail in the skies to minimize hoping for haze see-thru.

Thanks

BarryWilkinson · Feb 7, 2008

Having re-read my post I'm sorry for it sounding very negative. As it was my first roll, I guess I was somewhat disappointed. Its interesting to read Martin's experience. We both used very similar filters, the same developer and times, yet he is getting good results. I've still got four rolls, so may be my experience may change?

Barry

Murray@uptowngallery · Feb 7, 2008

I'm sure it will...it'll be a different day!

Only deterrent to trying again might be the cost of developing...you've already paid the film mortgage off...I'm in the same boat...got the film, gotta try it.

martinhughesireland · Feb 7, 2008

BarryWilkinson said:
Having re-read my post I'm sorry for it sounding very negative. As it was my first roll, I guess I was somewhat disappointed. Its interesting to read Martin's experience. We both used very similar filters, the same developer and times, yet he is getting good results. I've still got four rolls, so may be my experience may change?

Barry

Give it a go again, well worth it. Below is a recent pic i took with the film with exposure and dev settings from above

ROllei IR400 Pic

Ole · Feb 7, 2008

I've used a Heliopan 695 filter with this film with good results. It was even hand-holdable with a 21mm lens on the Bessa-L - set the meter to 320 and fire away!

keithwms · Feb 7, 2008

I use the Rollei stuff with a #87 all the time... quite long exposures but well worth it. I typically do EV+12 compensation and that yields good density. Note that in the winter you will have much less IR foliage reflection of course. Mid spring seems to be the very best time for that.

Good luck!

efreddi · Feb 7, 2008

I made one roll this summer using the Contax Aria and a Hoya IR72 filter. My finding was that the real speed would be 12-25 Iso, but this depends on the light meter of the camera. For comparison my Leica M6 with the same filter in front of the lens was giving 2 full stop darker measure than the Aria.

Elia

BarryWilkinson · Feb 8, 2008

martinhughesireland said:
Give it a go again, well worth it. Below is a recent pic i took with the film with exposure and dev settings from above

ROllei IR400 Pic

I metered with an incident meter at ISO6/12 on a bright spring day with plenty of new foliage. Hearing of other people's experiences, I was wondering if my RHS developer had died. It was probably at least 6 months old. I will try again with fresh developer.

Barry
ps plenty of IR detail showing in your image.

cmo · Feb 8, 2008

Just one thing to add for your next experiment: for the price of ONE roll of Rollei film you might almost get TWO films by Adox/efke. Now, don't be cheap, don't buy ONE film for the lower price.

Murray@uptowngallery · Feb 8, 2008

PKM-25 · Feb 8, 2008

martinhughesireland said:
Give it a go again, well worth it. Below is a recent pic i took with the film with exposure and dev settings from above

ROllei IR400 Pic

Interesting....

I was just in a meeting with an ad client. We are trying to brand a dreamy style into a environmentally based ad campaign and I thought of possibly using this film in my 500 C/M.

I told her that along with some traditional black and white, it might be fun to try an IR component. Either way, with this one we are going analog for the consistency of film grain.

Since we are thinking of lighting this somewhat, with using either a R72 or a 87C filter, what kind of exposures would I be looking at if I exceed sunny-16 by three stops with my strobes in using this film?

I have 50 rolls of HIE in 120, but I am really trying to avoid using it for anything but fine art....But the idea of hand holding it with a 25A sure is appealing.

PKM-25 · Feb 14, 2008

No replies eh?

I am OK with long exposures as long as I can keep them to 1-4 seconds or less in full sunlight.

I can afford to be highly experimental in this ad campaign, we have tons of snow and at least two more months of ski season left. Basically what I am wanting to see it that classic jet black sky with a high contrast look on ski area equipment operators with snow cats, Snowmobiles an even ski patrollers doing avalanche control. These will mostly be posed but imply action FSA/ OWI style.

So I think that unless I get some real feedback here, I am going to use both a R72 and a 87C filter with both strobes at full power or reflectors in full sunlight to add style to the people. I figure 1,200 watt seconds at 3-6 feet away is pretty strong even compared to sunlight, so I might need a couple of rolls to nail this down before I go prime time.

Again...any ideas?

keithwms · Feb 14, 2008

I don't know what kind of dreamy look you'd get with the Rollei, I use that film because I don't care for halation. It has an AH layer and it basically removes halation completely. You won't see it at all in medium format or larger. I have speculated here before about washing away the AH layer before exposure or placing a reflective metal sheet (foil) on the pressue plate to boost halation but have tried neither of these approaches myself as yet.

If you mean dreamy=halation, then HIE is definitely your best shot. And frankly, I woudln't save the HIE, I would shoot it while it's still giving the best possible results.

You know what you might do is go ahead and shoot a pan b&w film with a red filter and then enlarge that with a metallic sheet under the duping film. It might halate for you if you have the right enlarger lamp (strongly IR emissive). Again just speculation.

If you want to shot the Rollei with a red filter then you might as well just shoot a less expensive film, you'll get no Wood effect with a red filter. You'll get a bit with an rm72 but not much. If you want tons of IR effect (way overdone and undifferentiated highlights, in my opinion) then shoot digitally but of course then there is no halation....

Murray@uptowngallery · Feb 14, 2008

Someone told me double emulsion xray film can be relieved of one side's emulsion by wiping it with bleach. I read that as laundry bleach, but maybe he meant photo bleach, a different animal.

Now, for AH layer, would water suffice...or...?

Just asking out of curiosity...I have enough experiments to do without humiliating my film :O)

keithwms · Feb 14, 2008

I haven't had a chance to experiment but will do, when I get time. I think the most flexible thing to try is to to introduce halation in the duping stage via foil behind a pan film. One could put spacers in between the film and the reflective foil and tune the effect that way.

if that doesn't work then I would try washing away the AH or just searching for a film that has none and dupe to that. Frankly the Rollei stuff is too expensive for my wee budget to try it! But I'm thinking, maybe tmax. Maybe ortho even, I don't know how much backscatter of blue light you can generate. So many things to try, so little time....

Anyway, enough, sorry to go so far off topic.

PKM-25 · Feb 14, 2008

keithwms said:
Anyway, enough, sorry to go so far off topic.

Yeah, sorry about that. I hate starting new threads based on my limited needs.

I have Efke IR820 too, it looks to be more IR like when used with deep reds IR-cut filters. Basically, this ad campaign is for "Savesnowdotorg".

What we are trying to emphasize in the black skies is that there is far less atmosphere between us and the vacuum of space than we often realize, so we need to be pioneers in the ski industry to help keep things in balance if at all possible at this point.

Since this is not an article on global warming, but instead, an ad campaign on how to possibly prevent it from further progression, the use of artistic intent is heavily implied here.

I think this is going to be a really fun shoot over the next few weeks..

Rollei IR400, 87 filter, stand development

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