Rollei IR 120 weird negatives

AgX · Sep 1, 2019

Thus there is no need to wash the dyes out.
Concerning the tanks and reels, one can warm them up without wetting the film.

StepheKoontz · Sep 1, 2019

I've been presoaking films for decades, it's part of my routine and any effects (if there are any) are compensated for by the agitation/timing routine I use. IMHO it clearly isn't the cause of the OP problem and I've never see anything I would consider as a reason to stop doing it. I will say since I started this presoak with TMY I haven't seen the issue with a magenta stain on the negatives after processing and this film, especially on 120 which dumps a lot of dye out with the pre-soak water. I'm not going to proclaim this was the cause, but I haven't had that issue since I started pre-soaking.

removedacct1 · Sep 1, 2019

AgX said:
I never ever heard of presoaking film before I joined Apug.

Nor, does Agfa, who made this film, hint at a presoak.

That's not the whole story. Maco Photo clearly states that this film MUST be presoaked for several minutes to avoid tiny air bells and other problems this film is prone to. I used to presoak for one minute and still I got hundreds of tiny black holes in the negatives. Then, as Maco recommends, I extended the presoak time to 4-5 minutes and the problem was resolved.

In their Infrared tips sheet they state:

"It is required to pre-soak the film before the development process, maybe even more than once, until the water becomes totally clear." (See: https://www.maco-photo.de/files/images/ROLLEI INFRARED englisch.pdf)

AgX · Sep 1, 2019

That text is NOT from Maco, but was published by an italian author in an italian photo magazine.
Maco filed that text in their collection of press reviews of their products.

Agfa designed this film for roller transport processing without any pre-bath.
I got several Maco data-sheets, from the time of the introduction to current: no hint at all to any prebath, to the contrary, they hint at standard processing.

Again: I do not know any german textbook nor data sheet that speaks of a pre-bath. That concept was unkown here until internet-times.

Sirius Glass · Sep 2, 2019

John Tinsley in The Rotary Processor Manual: John Tinsley discusses the need for pre-soaking and also clearly states that both he and Jobo warn NOT to pre-soak Kodak Tri-X film when using XTOL in the Jobo processor. So now you have a non internet authoritative reference discussing pre-soaking.

Neil Grant · Sep 3, 2019

Sirius Glass said:
John Tinsley in The Rotary Processor Manual: John Tinsley discusses the need for pre-soaking and also clearly states that both he and Jobo warn NOT to pre-soak Kodak Tri-X film when using XTOL in the Jobo processor. So now you have a non internet authoritative reference discussing pre-soaking.

...excellent. Now all that remains is how AgX would be able to temper or cool a dev tank and reel without water. Then we can all go to bed happy.

AgX · Sep 3, 2019

Tempered air.

Though as said, in the respective manuals over here there was no mention of a pretempering of the innards of a tank at all. By whatever means.
And even Kodak in their manual on C-41 processing without a tempering external bath do not advise a tempered pre-soak.

Concerning authorities, I just was referring to the fact that a pre-bath was unknown over here.
Having in mind though that Germany played a major factor in photographic science and industry one should not disregard such that easily.

You Americans are not aware that a lot of things you regard as a given fact in the photo world are not so at other parts of the world, not even known there.

I know that pre-soaking, the removal of dyes and the use of the K1000 are sensible issues for you.
But still no reason for shouting....

choiliefan · Sep 5, 2019

I pre-soak everything including my dishes.

Neil Grant · Sep 13, 2019

AgX said:
Tempered air.

....it would take hours to do that. Also when would you know that you'd tempered enough? How would you generate your tempering air (
which may need to be hot or cold). I can do it with a presoak in 5 minutes. Your suggestion is complicated and inefficient,

Andrew O'Neill · Sep 13, 2019

choiliefan said:
I pre-soak everything including my dishes.

AgX · Sep 13, 2019

Neil Grant said:
_

It works more pecise, faster and without wetting.

mitch brown · Sep 13, 2019

For what is worth I am having the same problem and my Rollei IR film is never frozen and new in the last 6 mo from B&H I presoak for 5 min use xtol 1:1 in Jobo

Sirius Glass · Sep 13, 2019

I have frozen my Rollei IR 400 film, thawed it out, drove from Los Angeles to Montana and back with it over a two week period, exposed it in Bodie California, developed in replenished XTOL in a Jobo processor and never had these problems.

Rollei IR 120 weird negatives

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