Rollei Digibase C-41

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steelneck

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Bump..

Now i have developed 4 films in my initial 350ml batch of this soup, now 8 weeks old and stored in just a little more than half full bottles. Today i developed a roll of Reala and it came out OK. So, the working solution seem so far to last more than 8 weeks in room temp even with a lot of air in the bottles, and the concentrates lasts for a very very long time and do not need to be stored in full bottles or use of protectan gas or such. It can also be bought in very small quantities, even kits down to 500ml working solution. This chemistry looks to me more and more like the perfect fit for the hobbyist.
 

JLP

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Just received a couple of the Digibase C41 midi kits from Freestyle.
I am quite surpriced to see that there is no stop and washing mentioned in the processing sequence, that must be a mistake or is it not?
Previously i have used the Tetenal C41 kit which require washing before the stabiizer and a stop is also recomended.
Anyone here willing to coment on this?
Thanks..
 

srs5694

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Lack of stop bath is not odd, but lack of wash is. Referring to Kodak's Z-131 publication (I believe the 3rd PDF is most appropriate for small-tank use in home darkrooms), the Kodak C-41 process is normally:

  1. Developer: 3:15
  2. Bleach III: 6:30
  3. Wash: 3:15
  4. Fixer: 6:30
  5. Wash: 3:15
  6. Stabilizer III: 1:30
  7. Dry: As needed

In another thread, PE explained that the bleach is acidic enough to serve as a stop bath, so no separate stop is necessary. (RA-4 blix, used in print-making, is apparently much less acidic. I'm not sure about the blixes used in C-41 kits that use blix.) FWIW, I use a pre-soak prior to the developer step in order to bring the film temperature up to 100F.

Also, there are variants on many of these chemicals from Kodak, such as final rinse rather than stabilizer. (Stabilizer is needed for older films, but either works fine with newer films from Kodak and Fuji.)

If the washes were omitted, the bleach would contaminate the fixer. This might not be a big problem if you used it one-shot. IIRC, the instructions for Kodak's single-use E-6 kit don't include a wash between the bleach and the fixer, but this is a single-use kit. I don't know how much of a problem it would be if you were to re-use the fixer; it would effectively turn the fixer into a weak blix. Certainly omitting the wash after the fixer step would leave fixer in the film, and that couldn't be good.
 

JLP

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srs5694, Thank you for confirming. I will go by Kodaks process including the wash between bleach and fix and again after fix.
I usually always use C41 as one shot but thought it could be interesting to try to reuse since the Digibase C41 kit should have good keeping properties even when mixed. The wash certainly is important to avoid contamination.
Thanks again.
 

epatsellis

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Has anybody run a control strip with this chemistry? It would answer a lot of questions and resolve any lingering doubts.
 
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steelneck

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JLP said:
I am quite surpriced to see that there is no stop and washing mentioned in the processing sequence, that must be a mistake or is it not?
Click to expand...

Yes you are right, i had not even thought about that the instructions do not include stop and wash. I saw that as kind of common sense and have used a quick wash between bleach and fix, and also a good wash before the stabilizer. As stop i have used both a weak acetic and citric acid solution, but i think it does not do much more good than just plain water.

I guess that it can be used without it but the chems will last a bit longer with.
 

perminna

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I've been eyeing on Rollei Digibase C-41 chemicals too. I'm a C-41 rookie with less than 20 rolls' experience with Tetenal kit. I have my second Tetenal 1 litre kit in use (first half) and I've thinking of trying out another C-41 kit next. I've almost set my mind to buy Fuji Hunt 5 litre kit but based on this thread, I think I'll try a small kit of Rollei Digibase first. Or maybe I order both Rollei ja Fuji Hunt and use them side by side.
 

epatsellis

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Greg, are you using a step tablet type card? If you can, you want to check tracking at various densities throughout the tonal range to detect crossover and other color anamolies.
 

Tim Gray

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Greg, you could shoot the gray card and bracket like -4 to +4 to simulate a step chart.

I'm interested to hear what your experiences are. I'm thinking of either ordering this kit of the Formulary kit. This one is cheaper and a good size, but the Formulary kit is Kodak.
 

epatsellis

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Kodak Q-13 step tablet would give you a color neutral scale, reasonably priced and well worth the effort.
 

perminna

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Has Greg had the time to go through with the comparison?
 

DeanSilliman

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Hello all. Great site. First post.

So I received my first Digibase C41 kit from Freestyle. I have plenty of experience developing my own B&W film but I have a few questions as this will be my first color development experience:

I ordered the smaller 1L (10 roll) kit to start. I have more rolls than that to develop so it will go quickly. (Shelf life of the working solution is not an issue.) So should I just mix up the whole thing into 1L working solutions and go? I will be using my new (to me) Jobo CPE2+ processor and thought I would use the 5 roll canister two or three times over. I would pour in as much of each 1L solutions as will fit then pour it back into each 1L working solution when done so the solutions will be reused on a rolling basis. Correct?

What about later when I’m doing only a few rolls at a time? My thought is that I would still use the 5 roll canister with some full and some empty rolls in it. That way I would ensure that there is enough working solution rolling around in there. I've heard that can be an issue with small (2 or 3 roll) Jobo processing. Again I would be pouring from and returning to rolling 1L solutions. Good idea?

I've also heard that a wash is a good idea between steps even though not described in the Digibase materials. I think that was recommended above in this thread even. A good idea, and if so then after which steps?

Finally, should I really stop at 10 rolls? The kit is pretty cheap so I do not want to push my luck, but I don’t want to be wasteful either.

Thanks so much. I look forward to participation here and will post results later.

Dean
(Leica M rangefinder shooter.)
 

hrst

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DeanSilliman said:
So should I just mix up the whole thing into 1L working solutions and go?
Click to expand...

Yes.

I will be using my new (to me) Jobo CPE2+ processor and thought I would use the 5 roll canister two or three times over. I would pour in as much of each 1L solutions as will fit
Click to expand...

You use the amount specified in the tank under the title "ROTARY". See http://www.jobo.com/web/1500-Series-Tanks.336.0.html or http://www.jobo.com/web/2500-Series-Tanks.337.0.html .

You said you have 5 roll tank, then it's probably 1520&1530 combination and if so, you measure 570 ml of each chemical.

then pour it back into each 1L working solution when done so the solutions will be reused on a rolling basis. Correct?
Click to expand...

Yes, you can do it like this. You have to adjust the development time for the next rolls, I'm sure the kit instruction has a table for this.

What about later when I’m doing only a few rolls at a time? My thought is that I would still use the 5 roll canister with some full and some empty rolls in it.
Click to expand...

You can do it like that, or you can use smaller tank with appropriate, smaller volume of chemistry. It doesn't make a difference since you are reusing the chemistry anyway. If you did one-shot, you would probably want to use smallest tank and smallest chemical volume possible for cost saving.

That way I would ensure that there is enough working solution rolling around in there. I've heard that can be an issue with small (2 or 3 roll) Jobo processing.
Click to expand...

No, there is absolutely no issue. The minimum volume in Jobo rotary is enough for C-41
process. I remember discussing some issues at APUG a year or two ago, but I'm 100% positive that the problems were elsewhere, for example, in temperature control.

I have moved to prewash as suggested by PE. I measure out some wash water at exactly the process temperature, and then make two or even three quick washes with it. Then I drain the water as well as possible and go quickly to developer. Of course, a dry preheat, as instructed in most instructions, work well but it really needs at least 5 minutes, preferably more.

Again I would be pouring from and returning to rolling 1L solutions. Good idea?
Click to expand...

Yes.


I've also heard that a wash is a good idea between steps even though not described in the Digibase materials.
Click to expand...

Do NOT use a water wash between developer and bleach. The development continues and this may cause some color crossover. You probably can use a stop bath, followed by a quick wash, but why bother? The chemistry should have been designed so that you go directly to bleach.

However, usually a decent wash between bleach and fix is used. Is there none in Rollei instructions?

And, as you are processing rotary, don't underestimate the need of final wash. Change the water at least 7-8 times. And remember not to wash after final rinse / stabilizer.

Finally, should I really stop at 10 rolls? The kit is pretty cheap so I do not want to push my luck, but I don’t want to be wasteful either.
Click to expand...

I have had some good results in overusing C-41 chemistry. It's quite a robust process. You will probably get good results, but it cannot be guaranteed and they might be a bit off if measured.
 

DeanSilliman

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Thanks hrst and fotch.

I mixed up the chemicals last night and took to it. First disaster, then redemption. The first thing I noted was that the working solutions for the 10 roll kit are only 500ml, not 1L. So that ruled out using the five roll canister on the Jobo (1520+1530) because, as noted above, it would take 570ml. In fact, the stab working solution is only 250ml. So I used only the two roll 1520 tank.

Then my mistake. I grabbed two REALLY old rolls of exposed film. As in probably 12+ years old that I recently found in a bag in the garage. My flawed logic was that if they did not turn out then no loss. I knew it was a mistake at the time but proceeded nonetheless. The process went fine but the finished films were dead black. No trace of an image. So I grabbed a fresh roll, shot some things around the house (flowers, dog), and loaded up the Jobo again. My wife and daughters came home just in time to see the second batch come out of the tank (a very exciting thing for a five year old). And this time - SUCCESS. Flowers and dog. It dried overnight and I will throw them into the Epson V700 this evening.

BTW, the instructions do not mention wash at all other than the thermal prewash. But I added one before and after fix and it went fine. I probably could have done more cycles of wash before the stab, as recommended above, and I think I'll add that in the future.

Thanks for the help here. A few remaining questions:

Upon opening the tank at the end, the stab had made everything very frothy/bubbly. Is that normal and okay?

For those who have a Jobo with lift, after draining a given chemical, do you continue to hold the lift/tank up and pour water into the funnel to clear out the drain tube and area, then proceed? I saw that recommended somewhere and it seemed okay but I was curious. The one concern I have about the Jobo process with lift is that a lot more chemical than normal gets carried from one process to the next. My bleach went from yellow to developer/dark color the first time.

Dean
 

hrst

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Stabilizer/final rinse foams quite a bit. If it bothers you, it's recommended to do that step outside the processor. But if you have only 250 ml of solution, it's not possible then. But, I use the processor for stabilizer/final rinse too every now and then, and foaming hasn't caused any problems.

BUT. When I stabilize with the tank attached to the Jobo, I don't use the lift system at all. I remove the tank, carefully pour the stabilizer in the tank and then attach the tank back to the processor. And when the time is up, I remove the tank from processor. This way, I don't have to wash the processor funnel system afterwards, as it gets washed simultaneously with final wash of the film. If you let stabilizer touch with processor's funnel system, you have to wash it out.
 
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steelneck

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DeanSilliman said:
Upon opening the tank at the end, the stab had made everything very frothy/bubbly. Is that normal and okay?
Click to expand...

Well, yes. If you agitate the stab it will be very bubbly. It behaves much like dishwashing liquid, and even share some of its characteristics. I process manually in a paterson and after the wash i just gently pour in the stab, rotate the rheels a little by hand and then just let it sit the time out.

About the capacity. At first i mixed up 350ml and developed 4 films over a time of 8 weeks (stored in half full bottles in room temp). Last week i came home from a short trip with 5 films. I mixed up 350ml more and used all of that together with the old (=700ml) in a larger tank and processed the new 5 films. All came out good. This time it was one Reala, one Superia 1600 (that also got X-rayed 3 times at airports), one Ektar and two Pro 160C. So i have done 9 films in 700ml, where half of that chemistry already had developed 4 films and been stored badly. I have no doubt that i can process a couple films more in this 700ml, then i can replenish with what i have left in the concentrates (I also bought the 1L kit). I am quite confident that i can process at least 25 films, maybe 30 on one L (now i have the chemistry in full bottles stored at around 10C).
 
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fotch

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No. Never have.
 

Marvin

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So if I had the 10 roll kit it would just fill my 16 oz. tank and I would make 5 runs with 2 rolls each and use the same chemicals 5 times. Would this be correct for 10 rolls of 35mm.
 
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