Rollei Crossbird

Ten301 · Nov 14, 2020

I've been told and have read conflicting information concerning the EI rating of this film depending on E6 or C41 processing, and I'm hoping someone can clear it up. In my case I'm specifically referencing the 35mm version. If I'm understanding it correctly, the instructions printed inside the box state to shoot it at 100 if processing in its native E6 chemistry, otherwise shoot it a 200 if processing in C41? The reason I'm so confused is I was told the opposite by someone at a lab I sometimes use, although I don't know how much of this film they actually see. Also, since the film is named 'Rollei Crossbird' and it is a native E6 film, do I still have to tell the lab I want it processed in E6 and if it is supposed to be 100 in E6, tell the lab it was shot at 100? Totally confusing!

Donald Qualls · Nov 15, 2020

If the cassette is marked C-41 (as I think I recall it is, to ease cross processing in labs that pay attention), you'll need to tell the lab if you want E-6 process, and likely explain to the high school student taking the film in that it's an E-6 film packaged for cross processing.

As far as EI, if the box says to shoot at EI 100 for E-6, do it that way; the lab will give it standard process if you don't tell them otherwise, and that's apparently what Rollei arrived at for that film. Because E-6 uses CD-3 while C-41 uses CD-4, there are difference in the process and its effects -- but any push in E-6 would be done in the first developer, and that may result in different speeds for best quality between original process and a cross process -- and the change can run either way.

Steve@f8 · Nov 15, 2020

Excuse me butting in...
Does cross processing E6 in C41, or C41 in E6, bugger up the chemicals of a processing Lab?
Thank you.

thuggins · Nov 15, 2020

I just shot a roll at 200 ASA and processed in E6. It came out fine. Crossbird makes interesting trannies with a very retro look. It is unfortunate that it is packaged for cross processing.

Steve@f8 said:
Excuse me butting in...
Does cross processing E6 in C41, or C41 in E6, bugger up the chemicals of a processing Lab?
Thank you.

No.

Andrew O'Neill · Nov 15, 2020

"explain to the high school student taking the film"

Steve@f8 · Nov 15, 2020

Reading this thread I became very interested in trying Rollei Crossbird.
Looking at my usual U.K. stockists for film, Crossbird is out of stock.

Has it been discontinued?

Quendil · Nov 15, 2020

I shot it at 100 and got it developed in E6 at a shop and they came out fine.

Ten301 · Nov 15, 2020

Thank you for the replies and information, and a special thanks to Donald Qualls for all the technical info. So apparently, even though (I assume) Rollei Crossbird is a native E6 slide film, it appears to have a wider latitude than 'normal' slide film if people have exposed it at 100 and 200 and have still gotten good results?

Ten301 · Nov 15, 2020

Steve@f8 said:
Reading this thread I became very interested in trying Rollei Crossbird.
Looking at my usual U.K. stockists for film, Crossbird is out of stock.

Has it been discontinued?

Freestyle here in the U.S. stated they still had about 100 rolls of the 35mm in stock as of about a month ago. When I called them then it was listed as "Low Stock" on their website and still is, so I don't know how much (if any) they still have in stock. At that time they told me it had not been discontinued, only that it is made it 'batches", and when the batch is sold out, that's it until Rollei (I guess they meant whomever is making this for them, probably Agfa or InovisCoat) makes the next batch.

Steve@f8 · Nov 15, 2020

Ten301 said:
Freestyle here in the U.S. stated they still had about 100 rolls of the 35mm in stock as of about a month ago. When I called them then it was listed as "Low Stock" on their website and still is, so I don't know how much (if any) they still have in stock. At that time they told me it had not been discontinued, only that it is made it 'batches", and when the batch is sold out, that's it until Rollei (I guess they meant whomever is making this for them, probably Agfa or InovisCoat) makes the next batch.

I did some further prodding..., one of the U.K. suppliers has an announcement to the effect that further stock is expected December 2020. But Covid could change things. Probably buy half a dozen or so when I can as I’m liking the XPRO look.

Donald Qualls · Nov 15, 2020

Steve@f8 said:
Excuse me butting in...
Does cross processing E6 in C41, or C41 in E6, bugger up the chemicals of a processing Lab?
Thank you.

It shouldn't. The things that cause trouble are older B&W emulsions that can't take the heat (literally, the gelatin will soften so much at 38C that the emulsion just floats off and requires a full shutdown and detail cleaning of the processing machine) and films with remjet (Visions3 films, for instance, that weren't obtained under Cinestill's rebrand, thus haven't been through their "premoval" process). C-41 and E-6 run at the same temperature and are "almost compatible" -- either one will produce a color image in the other's process, though C-41 in E-6 is a lot less interesting (due to the orange mask) than E-6 in C-41.

Ten301 said:
So apparently, even though (I assume) Rollei Crossbird is a native E6 slide film, it appears to have a wider latitude than 'normal' slide film if people have exposed it at 100 and 200 and have still gotten good results?

Without knowing how it was processed after shooting at those speeds, we don't know. Most E-6 films can be pushed much like pushing B&W -- just give longer first developer (which increases contrast) or, if you're doing it at home, add a little additional thiosulfate or thiocyanate to the one-shot first developer to lighten the resulting slide without affecting contrast (much).

MattKing · Nov 15, 2020

If a lab is running a replenished line and keeping it within specification using a densitometer and control strips, adding a bunch of cross processed film will probably require the lab to make adjustments to keep the line within spec. That is why labs that do this regularly prefer to run the cross processed film at the end of the day or week, because the next run will probably require adjustment anyways.

Steve@f8 · Nov 16, 2020

Thanks to Donald Qualls (always a detailed, almost forensic response) and to Matt King.
If / when I get my hand on some of the Rollei Crossbird I assume the lab will know it’s E6 even though the label says C41, so it’s shouldn’t be my responsibility to inform them. But I will, I’d hate to mess their replenishment needs.

Donald Qualls · Nov 16, 2020

Steve@f8 said:
I assume the lab will know it’s E6 even though the label says C41

Don't assume. If it's labeled as C-41, they'll process it as C-41 unless you tell them you want E-6.

Steve@f8 · Nov 16, 2020

Donald Qualls said:
Don't assume. If it's labeled as C-41, they'll process it as C-41 unless you tell them you want E-6.

Actually I’m more inclined to have it C41 processed because I like the XPRO look.
In fairness it would be appropriate to tell the lab it’s transparency (E6) by design and that I want the film processed as per the label. (Relating to post 12 by MattKing).

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