Rodinal

Ken Nadvornick said:

Best dilution preparation tip I can offer for Rodinal (or any liquid concentrate) is to purchase an inexpensive set of livestock syringes and needles from a farm supply outfit. They are available over the counter without legal hassle and can be reused over and over. Just take ten seconds and use a Dremel to grind down the tip of the stainless steel needle for safety.

My set of five plungers run from a 60 ml/cc marked in 1.0 ml/cc increments down to a 6 ml/cc marked in 0.2 ml/cc increments. There is also a 3 ml/cc unit available. They are labeled Ideal Instruments and they are marked For Veterinary Use Only. I believe the manufacturer is Neogen.

Click here for an online brochure. And here for a manufacturer catalog listing.

Ken

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Exactly what I use for Rodinal and Pyrocat-MC. I keep one attached to each bottle of Pyrocat-MC so as not to cross-contaminate. They do have to be replaced after time as the rubber plungers start to stick, but they are dirt cheap. Works perfect! John W

baachitraka said:

Its 1+25, 1+50, 1+100,...for me.

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Of course, why not? But 1+25 = 1:26 means for your example of of 300 ml: 11.5 ml concentrate + 288.5 ml water. Your calculation is false. Think about the Xtol example and you will get the difference. 1+2 means 100 ml stock + 200 ml water. 1:2 means 150 ml stock + 150 ml water for a total of 300 ml developer. It's so simple.

In the case of high dilutions of Rodinal the difference is low, but for a beginner it's important imo that he is instructed correctly and that he knows that e.g. 1+9 is the same as 1:10.

grommi said:

Of course, why not? But 1+25 = 1:26 means for your example of of 300 ml: 11.5 ml concentrate + 288.5 ml water. Your calculation is false. Think about the Xtol example and you will get the difference. 1+2 means 100 ml stock + 200 ml water. 1:2 means 150 ml stock + 150 ml water for a total of 300 ml developer. It's so simple.

In the case of high dilutions of Rodinal the difference is low, but for a beginner it's important imo that he is instructed correctly and that he knows that e.g. 1+9 is the same as 1:10.

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And if you take a look at the thumbnail above, the poop sheet uses 1+25/50/100.
In the end it doesn't really matter as long as what you do is consistent.
For my purpose 1+X is easier and I don't need to futz around with fractions of ml

grommi said:

Of course, why not? But 1+25 = 1:26 means for your example of of 300 ml: 11.5 ml concentrate + 288.5 ml water. Your calculation is false. Think about the Xtol example and you will get the difference. 1+2 means 100 ml stock + 200 ml water. 1:2 means 150 ml stock + 150 ml water for a total of 300 ml developer. It's so simple.

In the case of high dilutions of Rodinal the difference is low, but for a beginner it's important imo that he is instructed correctly and that he knows that e.g. 1+9 is the same as 1:10.

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Nope, it's exactly what he says - 25 parts water plus 1 part Rodinal, or 50 parts plus 1 part, etc.
I use Rodinal 1+50 and in a two roll Paterson tank that is 600ml water plus 12ml Rodinal.

I apologize, I'didn't realize that 306 ml (or 612 ml) total amount were ment. It's my habit that I always prepare 250 or 500 ml and not 255 or 510 ml. Sorry for the confusion.

PS: almost all(?) other solutions are formulated as 1+9, 1+14, 1+19, 1+49 etc so you end up with an even number of milliliters. Sorry again for my fault.

So precise! Geez!

I plop 20ml of Rodinal into 1000ml of water or 10 in 500 for 1:50. Sure not exactly 1:50 but close enough and I stay consistent so it all works out. I rarely use a small tank but if I do I still mix up 500ml and discard the extra.

Yep, when folks get that picky I call it "splitting hairs". If you split the hairs the same way every time it's not going to matter whether it was split crossways or lengthways. Just make sure it's split that way every time and you'll have it made. John W.

I didn't mean to upset anyone. Mixing powder doesn't seem so complicated or difficult as to be a reason to avoid powder developer though. Mixing powders is not difficult at all. Takes longer and a bit more work, that's it.

I use both powders and liquids. Yes, in general liquids are easier in the sense of being quicker and requiring less work. You can also use water at the right temperature and end up with working developer already pretty much the temperature you want, as opposed to having to wait for a powder-mixed developer, usually mixed at a higher temperature, to cool. (I try to mix D-76 or LPD powder the day before I plan to use it for that reason.) But there's nothing difficult about powder.

Again, there's nothing wrong with Rodinal. I also didn't realize at the time that the post I replied to was from the OP - those things get lost by page three or four sometimes. To answer the original question, as many have, it's fine. I just wouldn't make my selection just because mixing powders was too hard. And even if that were a big thing - it does take more time - there are plenty of other liquid choices as well. HC-110, T-Max and T-Max RS, DD-X etc.

grommi said:

I apologize, I'didn't realize that 306 ml (or 612 ml) total amount were ment. It's my habit that I always prepare 250 or 500 ml and not 255 or 510 ml. Sorry for the confusion.

PS: almost all(?) other solutions are formulated as 1+9, 1+14, 1+19, 1+49 etc so you end up with an even number of milliliters. Sorry again for my fault.

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You do not need to apologize, its just a discussion.

grommi said:

I apologize, I'didn't realize that 306 ml (or 612 ml) total amount were ment. It's my habit that I always prepare 250 or 500 ml and not 255 or 510 ml. Sorry for the confusion.

PS: almost all(?) other solutions are formulated as 1+9, 1+14, 1+19, 1+49 etc so you end up with an even number of milliliters. Sorry again for my fault.

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There won't be a detectable difference most people use eg 1+10 and can't find the '+' key or poured coke over it.

Roger Cole said:

I didn't mean to upset anyone. Mixing powder doesn't seem so complicated or difficult as to be a reason to avoid powder developer though. Mixing powders is not difficult at all. Takes longer and a bit more work, that's it.

I use both powders and liquids. Yes, in general liquids are easier in the sense of being quicker and requiring less work. You can also use water at the right temperature and end up with working developer already pretty much the temperature you want, as opposed to having to wait for a powder-mixed developer, usually mixed at a higher temperature, to cool. (I try to mix D-76 or LPD powder the day before I plan to use it for that reason.) But there's nothing difficult about powder.

Again, there's nothing wrong with Rodinal. I also didn't realize at the time that the post I replied to was from the OP - those things get lost by page three or four sometimes. To answer the original question, as many have, it's fine. I just wouldn't make my selection just because mixing powders was too hard. And even if that were a big thing - it does take more time - there are plenty of other liquid choices as well. HC-110, T-Max and T-Max RS, DD-X etc.

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Hi Roger

I'd second that mixing powders is easy, I do it for packages like Microphen or for formula like ID68.

But liquid is quicker if you are in a hurry and Rodinal lasts for decades, 25 mls in bottom of bottle from 1978 till 2005 only a 100 ml bottle.

My 2 cents:
0.01 - stock developers mixed from powder don't last forever - over the years I've thrown a lot of brown stock away. Folks starting out are not usually shooting vast quantities of film. The long shelf life of Rodinal or HC110 can be a big plus. Plus it works fine even when it is dark brown with big chunks of crystal in the bottom.
0.02 - the only 35mm film I've found does't work well with rodinal is delta 3200. Unless you like golf ball sized grain.

My last attempt of high speed film (3200) with Rodinal (high magnification of one small area of the neg):

^ hahaha!!!

brian steinberger said:

^ hahaha!!!

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Love it too!

Attached is one of my prints made from 35mm Delta 3200 (@1600), processed in Rodinal 1+25. It looks very good at 16x20" print size. The grain is gorgeous, and when you make a larger print, details start to show in a way that boggles the mind for a 3200 speed film.
I think Rodinal really brings out the best in Delta 3200. You just have to make sure to process the film long enough to build enough contrast to make a nice print.

Thomas, lovely shot. I've mostly used 3200 for indoor, available light shots - at a birth, say. Found I didn't like the extreme grain with rodinal. I keep DDX on hand for 3200 work. We all find what works for our subjects and our vision.

grommi said:

No, it's 1:50 and 1:25 or 1+49 and 1+24. .

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READ the Bottle again. it is one part to 50 parts. or one part to 25 parts. The same way that D-76 1:1 is one part each of developer and water. Lets not confuse the Original poster with Chem students dilution logic. Most of the rodinal bottles I have seen actually use the 1+50 notation.

For practical purposes the difference between one part developer and 49 or 50 parts water won't make one bit of difference. Same for 24 or 25 really. I prefer the terminology 1+x because it's universally understood and not subject to the possible confusion of 1:x but for the dilutions at which Rodinal is used it's a silly quibble. Even if it did matter it would be lost in the noise and adjusted by individual development time fine tuning.

Roger Cole said:

Even if it did matter it would be lost in the noise and adjusted by individual development time fine tuning.

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Yup.

sly said:

My 2 cents:
0.01 - stock developers mixed from powder don't last forever - over the years I've thrown a lot of brown stock away. Folks starting out are not usually shooting vast quantities of film. The long shelf life of Rodinal or HC110 can be a big plus. Plus it works fine even when it is dark brown with big chunks of crystal in the bottom.
0.02 - the only 35mm film I've found does't work well with rodinal is delta 3200. Unless you like golf ball sized grain.

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Very true, and good points. I've thrown out a fair amount of D76.

OTOH, it's so cheap that's not a big deal. I sometimes use it in deep tanks for 4x5 (I seem to have started getting streaking on my 4x5 negs with the Jobo and 2509n reels where I didn't used to, and I've no idea yet what changed, so I went back to deep tanks for sheets that matter until I sort it out on sheets that don't.) With 1/2 gallon tanks it's best to use replenished full strength, but I don't really use enough for that so I just go with 1+1 single shot. Wasteful? Well in a way, yes, because so much capacity is wasted. But still, D76 costs $6.29/gallon (Freestyle, no doubt slightly cheaper somewhere or other) so that quart to make 1/2 gallon 1+1 costs me $1.57 and a fraction. A bit more for shipping but I always have an unmixed packet of D76 in stock - when I mix one I order another - and buy it as part of a large order occasionally so that cuts that to a small amount. That's about the cost of a single sheet of 4x5 film (Ilford, Kodak is more and Foma in the form of Arista a bit less.) I can run six hangers at a time. If I do, say, ten sheets in a session (six at once, hang to dry then do four more) which is fairly typical it's cost me a bit over fifteen cents a sheet. If I end up throwing out a quart of that gallon because I didn't use it in time, well it was a buck fifty. I spend more than that on tolls to take the express lane to work.

It IS very nice having a bottle of developer you can count on, I agree totally. I LIKE liquids. I just wouldn't pass up trying something I thought I might like because it was powder only. (Diafine for example - I don't use as much as I used to but when I want it I want it and nothing else is quite like it. I'd probably grind it down from granite hardness if I had to in order to get it!)

Roger Cole said:

For practical purposes the difference between one part developer and 49 or 50 parts water won't make one bit of difference. Same for 24 or 25 really. I prefer the terminology 1+x because it's universally understood and not subject to the possible confusion of 1:x but for the dilutions at which Rodinal is used it's a silly quibble. Even if it did matter it would be lost in the noise and adjusted by individual development time fine tuning.

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Things like poorly calibrated thermometers, seasonal drift in temperature, difference in agitation, and other variables, will play at least as big of a role in the results compared to whether we add 1 part Rodinal to 24 parts or 25 parts water. You're 100% correct, Roger.

It does make a big difference with developers such as Xtol or D76, though. But again, the 1+X works really well for those of us who are just mortals. It's easily understood. Sometimes when I help beginners who purchased D76 I always spell out 1 part D76 concentrate to 1 part water, which completely eliminates any ambiguity of the abbreviated notation.

About D76 - I use it concentrated and reuse it for maximum simplicity. I think Kodak recommends 16 rolls per gallon where you add 15% developing time after every four rolls / 8x10 sheets processed. Since D76 lasts about 6 months when stored properly (I use brown amber glass chemical storage bottles), I never run the risk of not using it up. 16 rolls in six months is not a lot of film by any measure.

You reuse d-76? That's weird. I'd never do that.

I really like hc110 and rodinal for their stock shelf life.

When I plan to use d-76, ilfosol, or open a bottle ot tmax dev, I first make sure to have 20 rolls ready to be developed and only then do I mix the chemicals or open a bottle (ilfosol, tmax). I make sure to develop all the rolls within a day or two. This ensures absolute consistency.

And for even better consistency, I develop
10 same rolls at once in a big tank. This ensures that all those films require the same printing times (plus desired dodging/burning). This is a real saver.

At last, letting D76 rest for a few days after mixing is the best thing to do for ultimate development quality.

NB23 said:

You reuse d-76? That's weird. I'd never do that.

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You were not aware that D76 stock solution can be used and re-used with replenishment? Kodak published plenty of data outlining how to use it this way and it was almost a default for people doing 4X5 processing in rubber tanks. I've used D76 this way myself for 4X5 tank-and-hanger processing - as recently as September. Its not unusual.

NB23 said:

You reuse d-76? That's weird. I'd never do that.

I really like hc110 and rodinal for their stock shelf life.

When I plan to use d-76, ilfosol, or open a bottle ot tmax dev, I first make sure to have 20 rolls ready to be developed and only then do I mix the chemicals or open a bottle (ilfosol, tmax). I make sure to develop all the rolls within a day or two. This ensures absolute consistency.

And for even better consistency, I develop
10 same rolls at once in a big tank. This ensures that all those films require the same printing times (plus desired dodging/burning). This is a real saver.

At last, letting D76 rest for a few days after mixing is the best thing to do for ultimate development quality.

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D76 stock can be used for up to ten films, first film at suggested time, then simply add 10,20,30,40,50,60,70,80 and 90% to the time for subsequent films, this is per litre, this from the Ilford fact sheet for it's ID11 developer, which is bascilly the same formula, just a lot more expensive, I have used D76 for a while now at these times, following the Ilford method and the last film is as good as the first, just pour out the ampont you need, at the end pour it back into the Bottle of stock, mark of the film number,and let D76 mature for 24 hours after mixing and your fine