Rodinal: "old" vs "new" formula

Dave Krueger · Jan 23, 2007

I've seen a lot of threads that refer to the old and new Agfa Rodinal developers. I'm getting ready to try it and understand that Photographer's Formulary Rodinal (which is what I have) is based on an "old" Agfa formula.

Has anyone experimented with the two enough to have noticed a difference or is Rodinal pretty much behave like Rodinal no matter whether it's the old or new version?

Also I'd interested in hearing opinions from people who have used PF's version of Rodinal as to shelf life. The posts I've read make me think that Rodinal stock lasts nearly forever, but the PF Rodinal data sheet says 6 months, which is a significant strike against it if true.

Comments would be appreciated.

-Dave

MMfoto · Jan 23, 2007

I haven't tried the old versions, although many people say there isn't much difference.

It looks like AGFA Rodinal is making a comeback anyways so I'm personally hanging on untill the new stuff becomes available. But I still have some however and wouldn't hesitate to try the Formulary's or the R09 if it was keeping me from shooting something.

BTW, Agfa Rodinal instructions stated tht opened botles only keep for six months as well, IIRC. So I'd suspect the Formularies stuff has similar keeping qualities as well.

Tom Hoskinson · Jan 23, 2007

Dave Krueger said:
I've seen a lot of threads that refer to the old and new Agfa Rodinal developers. I'm getting ready to try it and understand that Photographer's Formulary Rodinal (which is what I have) is based on an "old" Agfa formula.

Has anyone experimented with the two enough to have noticed a difference or is Rodinal pretty much behave like Rodinal no matter whether it's the old or new version?

Also I'd interested in hearing opinions from people who have used PF's version of Rodinal as to shelf life. The posts I've read make me think that Rodinal stock lasts nearly forever, but the PF Rodinal data sheet says 6 months, which is a significant strike against it if true.

Comments would be appreciated.

-Dave

Take a look here: (there was a url link here which no longer exists)

Petzi · Jan 23, 2007

MMfoto said:
It looks like AGFA Rodinal is making a comeback anyways so I'm personally hanging on untill the new stuff becomes available.

I have a pallet of Agfa Rodinal and I got it from the manufacturer last month.

Petzi · Jan 23, 2007

MMfoto said:
BTW, Agfa Rodinal instructions stated tht opened botles only keep for six months as well, IIRC.

That is a more than conservative estimation.

Dave Krueger · Jan 23, 2007

Tom Hoskinson said:
Take a look here: (there was a url link here which no longer exists)

Actually, I read that as well as a number of other threads discussing Rodinal and whether the titration serves a purpose. Unfortunately I read them after I placed the order for the PF rodinal kit. I may just have gone with the Agfa version sold at Frestyle or purchased the individual chemicals for the Gainer version.

In any case, I mixed this kit up last night and everything seemed to go quite well, although I'm not sure if there were enough remaining crystals of precipitate left after I got done adding the hydroxide. When I looked at the mixture tonight I didn't see any crystals in there at all. That Gainer formula is looking pretty attractive now.

jim appleyard · Jan 23, 2007

An open bottle of rodinal will last for decades!

PHOTOTONE · Jan 23, 2007

The Agfa..Rodinal is readily available. A&O manufactures it currently, as they bought the photochemical division of the defunct Agfa operations. You can order as much as you want. There are several USA vendors. It is identical to the product made by Agfa a couple of years ago.

Anscojohn · Jan 23, 2007

I used Rodainal for many years when it was made in Germany. then, in the laste 70s, it disappeared from the US market and when it came back, it was marked Made in USA. My usual dilutions of 1:85 and 1:100 with some sodium sulfite all looked flat. I finally switched to Edwal FG-7 with 9 % sodium sulfite. I have used some "new" Rodinal, but not enough to decide if I wish to continue. I recently bought some Czech made R09--R09 being the designation Orwo in East Germany applied to its Rodinal. I have yet to try it.
But, to answer the question, I thought there was a difference between the old and the new Rodinal and I did not like the difference.

Anscojohn, Mount Vernon, Virginia, USA

Tom Hoskinson · Jan 24, 2007

I've got a bottle of Agfa Rodinal from the 1980's and a bottle of Agfa Rodinal from 2006. I also mixed up some of Gainer's ez rodinal using
p-aminophenol (base) from P.F. I got comparable (densitometry)results from all three developer versions diluted 1:50 on 120 rollfilm Efke 25 exposed to a 21 step Stouffer step wedge and developed with minimal agitation.

MMfoto · Jan 24, 2007

Petzi said:
That is a more than conservative estimation.

For sure. I was just pointing out that both products have the same warning and as such both probably keep for similar lengths of time... a very long time.

Jon Shiu · Jan 24, 2007

The wording of the Agfa instructions:

Once the bottle has been opened, the concentrate will remain usable for at least 6 months with the cap tightly fastened.

Jon

comment: to me, the "at least" wording implies that it can be good for longer

PatTrent · Jan 24, 2007

Jon Shiu said:
The wording of the Agfa instructions:

Once the bottle has been opened, the concentrate will remain usable for at least 6 months with the cap tightly fastened.

Jon

Yes, but I just developed some film yesterday from a half-full 3-year old plastic bottle with the same results as when I first opened that bottle. Now that the bottle is slightly more than half empty, I'll decant it into a smaller dark brown glass bottle. The solution in that bottle is dark, but it works perfectly well.

Xmas · Jan 24, 2007

Rodinal in part filled Agfa glass or plastic bottle is good for more than 20 years or so... ignore warnings.

Noel

Fotohuis · Jan 24, 2007

Rodinal in part filled Agfa glass or plastic bottle is good for more than 20 years or so... ignore warnings.

Wow !!

You really have tested that

We are almost on our 4 y.o. Rodinal test this year. But then with sensiometric proof on a Heiland TRD-Z densitometer where we are measuring the film curve every 1/2 year on the same film.

Till now, 3 1/2 years on a half filled 125ml Agfa bottle (original) no problem. But in this way the consumption rate will prevent that we will reach the 20 years before the bottle is empty

Dave Krueger · Jan 24, 2007

Well, I just ordered a bottle of the Agfa Rodinal from Freesysle. I guess the question that comes to mind is how long the Agfa version will continue to be available. One nice thing about the mix-it-yourself versions is you know it will always be available.

-Dave

joshverd · Jan 24, 2007

Xmas said:
Rodinal in part filled Agfa glass or plastic bottle is good for more than 20 years or so... ignore warnings.

Noel

No 50 yrs!.... Come on, that edges on meaningless.

Petzi · Jan 24, 2007

Dave Krueger said:
Well, I just ordered a bottle of the Agfa Rodinal from Freesysle. I guess the question that comes to mind is how long the Agfa version will continue to be available. One nice thing about the mix-it-yourself versions is you know it will always be available.

You can mix a developer yourself when the raw materials are available. Have you spent a thought on why the raw materials are produced in the first place?

gainer · Jan 25, 2007

Manufacturers would rather be conservative about expected lifetime. There are variables they would rather not be responsible for, such as how long the lid is off and how much uniformity in results from use to use may be required. I've had some that was black as tar that still met my expectations, but might not be good enough for laboratory use.

Wayne · Jan 25, 2007

Xmas said:
Rodinal in part filled Agfa glass or plastic bottle is good for more than 20 years or so... ignore warnings.

Noel

I have an open jar of Rodinal from 1962. It not only develops my negatives, it prints them too.

Wayne

Dave Krueger · Jan 25, 2007

I heard that Agfa is actually still distributing Rodinal from the batch they mixed up back when it was first invented (1898 or something like that)....

Dave Krueger · Jan 25, 2007

Those little stinkin' crystals...

So... Do those all-important crystals that must remain after you've finished adding the hydroxide appear in the bottom of the bottles of Rodinal that come from Agfa?

aldevo · Jan 26, 2007

Agfa Rodinal uses one or more developing agents in addition to p-Aminophenol. p-Aminophenol tends to induce very little fog but Agfa Rodinal contains a restrainer (Potassium Bromide) - which indicates the presence of at least on other developing agent.

I've only used the Agfa product - I don't know if it is different than the "traditional" published formula in any signficant fashion.

gainer · Jan 26, 2007

That's not evidence of another agent. I can get fog with p-aminophenol. As a rule, a developing agent will be a potentially harmful ingredient that should be reported in the MSDS. Is there any other evidence for the presence of more than one agent? In any case, a developer containing p-aminophenol as the sole developing agent can produce the same characteristics as the current AGFA product, so one might wonder why AGFA would bother to complicate matters.

Dave Krueger · Jan 26, 2007

gainer said:
In any case, a developer containing p-aminophenol as the sole developing agent can produce the same characteristics as the current AGFA product, so one might wonder why AGFA would bother to complicate matters.

Really? I will probably test the difference between the PF rodinal and the current Agfa version since I will soon have both, but from an academic perspective, I would guess that other additives might affect the negatives. For example, the PF forumla has sodium metabisulfite whereas the Darkroom Cookbook (by Anchell) says that it should be potassium metabisulfite (and that sodium metabisulfite should not be substituted in this case). So, of course, I'm wondering why... What affect does the metabisulfite have on the film? And aren't there some additives that partially disolve the grain taking away the accutance effect? Believe me, I speak from ignorance. I'm no developer guru.

Rodinal: "old" vs "new" formula

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