Rodinal like paper developer that is DIY?

[Dani]

I've spent the past couple of days searching and seems like there's nothing as far as formulas go.
Here's my wishlist... an ascorbic/phenidone or dimezone developer in PEG that would last a long time that I could get something like 10ml and dilute into 1L. I know I'll need a second set of dry ingredients like borax and the like.
Has anybody done something like that? I know of at least one commercial product, the ars-imago PE paper Eco developer in 1L. Ars-imago says that it'd last 1 year from the manufacturing date and once opened it'd last 3 months. Dilution is 1+9. Ideally I'd love for the concentrate to last more than 3 months once opened.

Does anybody have a formula for something like that? Or a variation of something like PCTEA but for paper?

 

[Peter Schrager]

following with interest!

 

[Ian Grant]

Rodinal was recommended as a Paper developer, as well as for plates and films, some years ago. If I can find the Agfa book I'll give the dilution,

Ilford Certinal was also used as a paper developer, as were other Rodinal clones like Kodinol.

On that basis para-Rodinal should work. Essentially using Paracetamol (Tylenol) as the developing agent. Again you would need to add Bromide.

Ian

 

[Don_ih]

I had a liter of PC-TEA stock that I wasn't using for film and one night when I didn't feel like mixing a more standard print developer for some quick tests, I mixed it 1+20 and it worked quite well. The stock was about a year old. The developer was still working the next day. For mw, such a developer has the advantage that I can use my very hard faucet water and not get cloudiness.
I have taken to throwing in a tablespoon of sulfite to the half gallon. I don't know if it does anything but maybe keep the solution from turning too brown for a little longer.

 

[Dani]

Oh that’s great to know! Thank you for that quote @Don_ih !

 

[Dani]

Rodinal was recommended as a Paper developer, as well as for plates and films, some years ago. If I can find the Agfa book I'll give the dilution,

View attachment 396524

Ilford Certinal was also used as a paper developer, as were other Rodinal clones like Kodinol.

On that basis para-Rodinal should work. Essentially using Paracetamol (Tylenol) as the developing agent. Again you would need to add Bromide.

Ian

Yes, I thought of doing that but I’ve been liking the ascorbate based developers and I have the chemicals here, just want to save on the workflow and pretend like my paper developer was bought at the store and all I have to do is dilute instead of mixing from scratch.

 

[Alan Johnson]

It should be possible to make up Ryuji Suzuki's ascorbate developer DS-14 from this thread as a 2-part developer. The TEA and salicylic acid can be omitted with some reduction in the life of the working solution.

Where's the formula for DS-14

If it's now on the market and the formula is unavailable I understand But I'm looking for the ds14 recipe... I checked ryuji suzukis website and it's no up anymore

www.photrio.com

 

[RalphLambrecht]

I've spent the past couple of days searching and seems like there's nothing as far as formulas go.
Here's my wishlist... an ascorbic/phenidone or dimezone developer in PEG that would last a long time that I could get something like 10ml and dilute into 1L. I know I'll need a second set of dry ingredients like borax and the like.
Has anybody done something like that? I know of at least one commercial product, the ars-imago PE paper Eco developer in 1L. Ars-imago says that it'd last 1 year from the manufacturing date and once opened it'd last 3 months. Dilution is 1+9. Ideally I'd love for the concentrate to last more than 3 months once opened.

Does anybody have a formula for something like that? Or a variation of something like PCTEA but for paper?

I suggest to get a copy of 'TheFilm Developing Cookbook'. It's full of interesting ideas and recipes with tons of too experiment.

 

[John Wiegerink]

When you say "Rodinal like paper developer" I think Kalogen is as close as you are going to get. I have used this homemade developer and it's a good one. I have a part full bottle made in 2016 that still worked about a year ago, but haven't checked it lately. As you can see, shelf life is not a problem. Also, it's highly concentrated so a little goes along way. Here is a post from Trask about Kalogen and Gerald Koch's version.

Trask
I copied this information from somewhere -- probably APUG -- back in 2005. The amounts aren't exactly as noted above, however.

"With Rodinal soon to be unavailable I thought the following formula might be of interest.

A developer called Kalogen was first marketed in 1917 by Paul L. Anderson. For years, photographers had favored a German developer called Rodinal. With the outbreak of World War I, Rodinal was no longer available. Anderson created Kalogen to remedy this situation. The formula appeared in his book
"The Technique of Pictorial Photography", J. B. Lippincott, 1939.

Distilled water (50°C) .................. 750 ml
Metol ....................................... 13.5 g
Sodium sulfite (anhy) ................... 180 g
Hydroquinone ............................. 53.0 g
Sodium hydroxide ........................ 35.0 g
Potassium bromide ....................... 5.0 g
Benzotriazole, 1% ........................ 80.0 ml
Distilled water to make ................. 1.0 l

Method of Preparation

Weight out the Metol and sulfite. Dissolve a pinch of the sulfite in the water before adding the Metol. Dissolve the other ingredients in the order given. A precipitate will form upon the addition of the hydroquinone which will dissolve upon the addition of the sodium hydroxide.

Transfer the solution to a 1 liter glass bottle, stopper and allow it to stand for 2 to 3 days. A small amount of impurities will precipitate out and the solution will become lighter in color. Filter the solution and transfer it to several small (2 to 4 ounce) glass bottles and label. When prepared correctly the solution will be a clear pinkish tan color.

When stored in nearly full and tightly capped small bottles, the stock solution will keep for months at room temperature. Should any crystals form due to storage at low temperature, they may be redissolved by warming and shaking the bottle.

The concentrate is diluted 1:30 to 1:60 for films. For 1:60 the average development time is 5 min @ 22C. Kalogen also makes an excellent paper developer when diluted 1:12 to 1:15 producing results similar to D-72. Develop 2 to 2-1/2 min @ 22C. The formula was published by Walter C Snyder, Dignan Newsletter, August 1973, pp 13-14.

Walter Snyder in the Dignan Newsletter article said that the original formula called for 9 grams of potassium bromide. He reduced the amount and added the benzotriazole. He made other changes to the original formula changing the Metol/hydroquinone ratio from 1:2 to 1:4. I have the feeling that he never adjusted the sodium hydroxide amount which may explain why there is an excess. I calculate 26 grams for 98% purity sodium hydroxide as enough to just create the phenolates."

 

[Dani]

Thank you! When I mentioned like Rodinal I meant the principle of a concentrate or maybe HC110 would have been a better comparison since I’m hoping to use PEG.

Unfortunately I don’t have any Hydroquinone and I’m trying to avoid buying it.

 

[bernard_L]

Ideally I'd love for the concentrate to last more than 3 months once opened.

Either D-72 (MQ) of ID-62 (PQ) stored in a wine pouch keeps 1 year, time enough to use 1 litre or even 2 litrre if reasonably active printing.
Too simple?

 

[Dani]

They are simple but I don’t have hydroquinone.

 

[Donald Qualls]

para-Rodinal should work. Essentially using Paracetamol (Tylenol) as the developing agent.

FWIW, my understanding was that the developing agent in Parodinal is p-aminophenol, because the very high pH of the concentrate cleaves the acetyl group from the n-acetyl p-aminophenol that's Paracetamol/Tylenol/acetaminophen. The appearance of a pink tone in the concentrate after mixing is the sign that this has occurred, as p-aminophenol oxidizes and the oxidation product is pink in very low concentrations -- while acetaminophen doesn't oxidize the same way.

 

[Donald Qualls]

They are simple but I don’t have hydroquinone.

The formula for Selectol Soft is on the Internet somewhere, and it was metol-only, no hydroquinone. But there's no reason Rodinal/Parodinal at three to five times film strength shouldn't work for prints (Dektol was originally a universal developer -- 1+1 or 1+2 for prints, 1+9 for film).

 

[revdoc]

You could try E72, which is a phenidone/ascorbate print developer. Quite a few people use it. I make it up as needed with spoon measures, usually 250ml at a time.

DIY options for standard paper developer

I'm looking for the ideal paper developer to standardize around. Obviously the "perfect" developer probably doesn't exist, but the qualities I'm looking for are something like this: Inexpensive/economical (in a perfect world, economical enough to use one-shot per session) Strongly prefer...

www.photrio.com

 

[Patrick Robert James]

You can certainly use Rodinal. I've done it before in a pinch. It isn't very economical if that is what you are after because paper developers are more concentrated than film developers. Plus Rodinal oxidizes quickly so it won't last long in a tray. It would only make sense if you used the Parodinal version and make it yourself.

Most developers will last a long time if you store them right. Use glass containers and butane/argon/heavy gas of your choice to seal them.

 

[John Wiegerink]

Pretty hard to make a really good, long lasting paper developer without hydroquinone. E-72 might be your best bet. I have used it and it is a good developer, but went back to ID-78 and or A-130. Are you avoiding hydroquinone due to cost? Remember, it lasts a long time and a little goes a long way.

 

[Dani]

Partly cost and that I just ordered a bunch of chemicals to mix and won’t have to order more in a long time. Also due to toxicity and disposal. I have all the chemicals for E-72 and DS-14 but I was wondering if I could speed up the mixing by having the developing agents mixed in PEG or if there was a formula out there that had a concentrate either viscous or liquid to save time.

 

[Don_ih]

Also due to toxicity and disposal.

Developing solutions do just fine being poured down the drain. It's really only a concern if you're producing hundreds of gallons of the stuff a month.

 

[Dani]

I’ve been using Ilford PQ developer for years and just recently decided to switch to mixing my own. I thought might as well go Ascorbic acid all the way, I already use XTOL and figured why not? So purchased all the stuff I needed and I’m sorta tied to ascorbic/phenidone/Dimezone for some time now.

 

[John Wiegerink]

I’ve been using Ilford PQ developer for years and just recently decided to switch to mixing my own. I thought might as well go Ascorbic acid all the way, I already use XTOL and figured why not? So purchased all the stuff I needed and I’m sorta tied to ascorbic/phenidone/Dimezone for some time now.

Nothing wrong with going ECO and I use XT-3(Xtol) myself, but most of the chemicals used now in photography are not that bad. Some of the old timers here remember a certain fellow always saying that many of the cleaning products you have under your kitchen sink were much worse than most photo chemicals we use today. Still pays to play it on the safe side if you can. All I know is that my chemical shelf will probably never be void of hydroquinone.

 

[ags2mikon]

I use brown glass bottles with poly cone caps for chemical storage and fill as close to the top as possible and add glass marbles if I teed to bring up the level to the top of the neck.

 

[Donald Qualls]

Rodinal oxidizes quickly so it won't last long in a tray.

One solution for this (and if you're making Parodinal, you have the chemicals for it) is to add 30-40 g/l of sodium sulfite during dilution. Rodinal oxidizes quickly because the high dilution means there's little sulfite ij the working solution; it ought to last to capacity at 1:15 and 40 g/l sulfite.

 

[Dani]

That’s very interesting! I have plenty sodium sulfite here and a bottle of Rodinal. I’m going to experiment.