Rodinal lasts forever.....and ever?

Hi everyone,
I've just bought from an elderly women her late husband's developing and darkroom equipment lock, stock and barrel. This includes some chemicals which I understand to have a long shelf life; HC 110 and Rodinal. The HC 110 has an expiration year of 2004-2005 but to the naked eye has not discolored or formed any sedement. The rodinal is unopened but has obvious concretions accumulating in the bottom of the bottle that partially dissolve, as far as I can tell, with vigorous shaking. Ive also got a bottle of viradon, which seems of similar vintage to the rodinal, but haven't read anything about it being exceptionally long lived. Can any of the industrial archaeologists out there advise me of the viability of the above chemicals and perhaps when they might have been manufactured?
Regards
Adam
PS
Ive also got a stack of old B&W paper that's long expired. Ill post a similar question about them separately.

That Rodinal is from 1972 I'll bet. I'd get rid of it. The 110 bottle is puckered. I'd throw out all of it. And the paper doesn't hold out much hope. These sorts of consumables typically come with used darkroom outfits. I've received several. Each time it sickens me to have to go through all of it and find out it's all 90% no-good. All that precious silver locked up in worthless paper, and no way to extract it or recycle it. But that's just the way it is. You tend to forget the sorrow of trashing all that and buying a few fresh supplies. after a while. Chalk it up to mankind being a wasteful consumer, but God still provides. The idea is photography and the taking and making pretty pictures, and life is short. Hopefully you've gleaned my point. After all, junk is junk and quickly becomes clutter.

I've recently used Rodinal of that bottle and vintage with no problems at all.

I've used HC110 older than that and it was fine. That's something to keep around for old film that friends find, but fresher could be better for your more recent shots.
Paper does get fogged, but then you can play with lumen prints and maybe other things. Just don't try to learn how to print using old paper - way worth it to buy new for that.

No sense in throwing it out. The HC110 and Rodinal should certainly be fine. Test them and see if they're up to snuff. While old paper is likely to have at least some fogging, you'll often be surprised what you can get out of it. Looks like a fun weekend of experimentation to me. At the very least, if you're not daring enough to put it to use, give it to someone who is. Even very fogged paper will be of interest to artists who like to experiment and color outside the lines. Not everybody with a camera is a Fred Picker.

eng1er said:

No sense in throwing it out. The HC110 and Rodinal should certainly be fine. Test them and see if they're up to snuff. While old paper is likely to have at least some fogging, you'll often be surprised what you can get out of it. Looks like a fun weekend of experimentation to me. At the very least, if you're not daring enough to put it to use, give it to someone who is. Even very fogged paper will be of interest to artists who like to experiment and color outside the lines. Not everybody with a camera is a Fred Picker.

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He's right. That Rodinal is incredible stuff. Whe you add just 1 drop to every gallon of Ilford Perceptol stock solution you mix, it becomes a terrific fine-grain developer with wide latitude. And you don't have to stand develop for 3 hours to enjoy all these benefits.And the old paper is excellent for use in ink-jet printers after soaking it in fixer for 10 minutes and washing it for 2 hours, and drying it.

Thanks everyone for all the replies. The HC-110 bottle is puckered because the previous owner used a bit and then squeezed the bottle to expel as much air from the bottle he could. I'm fairly comfortable using that stuff. The rodinal box says shelf life in indefinite but they must mean under absolutely ideal storage conditions. How about the viradon? Dump it?
I've attached some pictures of the paper just for kicks (I've got a ton of the ilford paper). Does the packaging reveal the paper's age to anyone? Perhaps '70s for the ilford and older for the agfa paper.
Regards
Adam

Tom1956 said:

He's right. That Rodinal is incredible stuff. Whe you add just 1 drop to every gallon of Ilford Perceptol stock solution you mix, it becomes a terrific fine-grain developer with wide latitude. And you don't have to stand develop for 3 hours to enjoy all these benefits.And the old paper is excellent for use in ink-jet printers after soaking it in fixer for 10 minutes and washing it for 2 hours, and drying it.

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Not sure why it would bother you so much that someone might use those materials rather than throw them away, but to each his own.

Just shoot a few frames on some film, open the camera in a dark-bag and cut off the foot or so of film, throw it in a tank, pour in the rodinal, and see what you get...

eng1er said:

Not sure why it would bother you so much that someone might use those materials rather than throw them away, but to each his own.

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Doesn't bother me a bit. Been there, done that, got the T-shirt and the hat. And when I want nice pictures I use good supplies. I love old junk photo hardware more than the next guy, because I've become so compulsively adept at rebuilding and adjusting them. But the consumable supplies are like the chicken strips I elected to throw away tonight instead of cooking them for supper. They were onlu in my refrigerator since 3 days ago when I bought them. I could have eaten them; that smell when I took them out to cook wasn't that bad. I might not have been throwing up right now if I ate them. Wisely, I ate the pork chops I bought tonight, and I feel good.
Just get rid of all that, and order some fresh supplies. Tuning up the hard equipment from a darkroom acquisition is work enough.

The Rodinal is ok for at least 25 years in almost empty bottle, in bad temps, you dont need to shake it or filter, just decant into measuring glass as needed.

The residue if you should decant will go back into solution when you dilute 1+25 or 1+100. It an excess of preservative in the main.

Id not keep chicken BTW but the Rodinal is not subject to salmonella basically it is drain cleaner so wear kitchen gloves.

imyself said:

Rodinal lasts forever.....and ever?

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Perhaps even longer.

Is forever and ever longer than just forever? Probably similar to infinity plus one.


Steve.

I'd certainly try the Rodinal, and would be surprised if it wasn't fine. I'd try the Viridon, but perhaps with less hope of success.

But I'd keep the two glass bottles whatever....rather nice collectables with the vintage labels.

Most likely the Ilfo-speed is long gone. The Brovira may be ok.

For the Rodinal it's very unlikely that it's not good. The bottle I had was at least that old and worked fine until I finished it a year or so back.
In addition to lumen prints, the dead paper is useful to season developers, especially for lith, or to saturate old fix to use with a silver magnet for recycling.

Be Brovira!

bdial said:

Most likely the Ilfo-speed is long gone. The Brovira may be ok.

For the Rodinal it's very unlikely that it's not good. The bottle I had was at least that old and worked fine until I finished it a year or so back.
In addition to lumen prints, the dead paper is useful to season developers, especially for lith, or to saturate old fix to use with a silver magnet for recycling.

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I've printed on 20 yr old [at least!] Record Rapid and it looked fantastic-some BZT or Bromide solution will often prove helpful with cutting fogging on old papers.

If you are into lith printing, you may get some great results from the old Agfa papers. If you are not into lith printing, now's the time to start!

Ignore Tom, he's just a grumpy guss sometimes.

The Rodinal should be good, and if you don't want it, I've been searching for a decent Rodinal glass bottle to use actually, I'd love to snag it from you if you don't want it, I'll even send you a fresh bottle of new Rodinal

I'd agree on trying the Rodinal - I bet it will work properly.

I currently am working my way through a bottle of Orwo R09 made in around 1986; it is as black as coca cola, but works perfectly.

1986....the year my all time favourite album [The Queen Is Dead by The Smiths] was released. +1 on the keeping qualities of Rodinal btw.

imyself said:

Ive also got a stack of old B&W paper that's long expired.

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Lith print.

Hi Adam

I was kindly given a box of Agfa Brovira FB some time back and had a chance to test it in lith this morning. (Low quality Jpeg attached.) Think my box looks the same vintage as your Brovira Speed, probably 1970s, though I think the Brovira Speed is resin coated. Anyway, very good reaction in lith dev. Prints shown are not amazing as was printing the image on another paper so didn't have time to experiment much, but curious to see how it would work. Quite gritty in Moersch SE5, (the wonder dev!), but lovely colours. Well worth seeing what your papers do in lith!

Black Dog said:

I've printed on 20 yr old [at least!] Record Rapid and it looked fantastic-some BZT or Bromide solution will often prove helpful with cutting fogging on old papers.

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I was going to say this - try the paper, nothing to lose. Try some benzotriazole (BZT) maybe for the Brovira and maybe the Kbr for the Portriga (as BZT tends to cool and Kbr to warm) and see what you get, if you're in an experimental mood. Nothing to lose by trying.

I'd bet the HC110 and Rodinal are fine. Of course test it on test film before committing good photos to it. I've no idea about the Viradon.

Im just getting my feet wet in the darkroom but I'd love to experiment with lith when I get a chance. Thanks for the advice!
Adam

Like The Rolling Stones

Roger Cole said:

I was going to say this - try the paper, nothing to lose. Try some benzotriazole (BZT) maybe for the Brovira and maybe the Kbr for the Portriga (as BZT tends to cool and Kbr to warm) and see what you get, if you're in an experimental mood. Nothing to lose by trying.

I'd bet the HC110 and Rodinal are fine. Of course test it on test film before committing good photos to it. I've no idea about the Viradon.

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That's spot on- I picked up some Kodak Bromide paper that must have been from the 60s and although not perfect after I added the maximum amount of KBr suggested in the Darkroom Cookbook, it was pretty reasonable and looked good with a pinhole neg.

Its......ALIVE!!!!!

I just wanted to post a quick follow up to my original post. I cracked open my bottle of rodinal (and cracked I use almost literally as the rubber stopper in the bottle was so caked in place , I had to use a screw driver to loosen it and nearly broke the bottle) and developed a roll of arista.edu 100 35 mm film in 5 ml rodinal+500 tap water for 60 minutes @ 20 degrees in my styrofoam water bath, with one intial minute of inversions and two inversions at 30 minutes. Water stop bath as per ilford instructions (fill and dump) and ecopro neutral fixer. I printed the negative on a sheet of 5x7 ilfospeed 2 silk (?1980's vintage) and developed in LPD with water stop and ecopro fixer. THE PRINT IS HORRIBLE! I know! It was late and I was tired and misjudged the exposure time but I just wanted to see what my rodinal could do. And ,allowing for the atrocious print, I think the rodinal still alive and kicking. Im going to repeat the print to get it right but I thought Id share my first run. The image looks sharp and clean and I can even see (although it doesn't scan well, partly due to my feeble scanner and also the texture of the 'silk' paper) very fine cobweb strands on the edge of the vacuum hose. Im looking forward to many more rolls of film developed in rodinal but I must say that my other developer (diafine) does a spectacular job with tri-x and I'm now really happy with the rodinal and diafine combination for slow and medium speed film. Now I need to pop open my bottle of viradon!
Cheers
Adam
PS
Do I really need to use a print hardener after toning with viradon (or any polysulphide toner for that matter)?
PPS
Is it pronounced ROW-dinal or RAH-dinal, just wondering....I use the former but heard the latter online