Rodinal Availability

drpsilver · Nov 7, 2011

06 Nov 2011

I know Agfa "died' several years ago, and with it many good papers and chemistry. However I heard that someone had purchased the formulation to Rodinal. Is it still available? If so, where and under what name? If not, any suggestions of an equivalent developer would be appreciated. My current developers are D76 and HC110.

Regards,
Darwin

ozphoto · Nov 7, 2011

Seems it is now sold as RO9 - http://www.ag-photographic.co.uk/ro9--rodinal-500ml-758-p.asp

munz6869 · Nov 7, 2011

or Adox Adonal here...

http://www.adox.de/english/ADOLUX/ADOLUX/page6/page6.html

Marc!

ninjarider · Nov 7, 2011

Or here if you are in the USA:
http://www.freestylephoto.biz

Ian Grant · Nov 7, 2011

Unfortunately John at J&C tried to pass off Calbe RO9 as genuine Rodinal by selling it packaged to look like the much later Agfa version, Agfa had neglected to keep the Trade Mark name registered it's now owned bt John.

This deciet has meant that no-one can now use the name, hence the confusion. It's also sold as Blazinal.

Ian

AgX · Nov 7, 2011

Darwin,

Agfa is not gone. "Only" their consumer branch (with those materials most known to Apuggers) went into oblivion. They are still offering films, paper and chemicals.

Roger Cole · Nov 7, 2011

There are several versions on the market, and other threads here about that. Some are older formulations of the the Rodinal formula and some newer ones.

Ian Grant · Nov 7, 2011

Roger Cole said:
There are several versions on the market, and other threads here about that. Some are older formulations of the the Rodinal formula and some newer ones.

No there are only 2 versions on the market.

Genuine Agfa Rodinal as made fom the mid 1960's when the formula was changed at the time of Agfa's merger with Gevaert. This has an excess of Hydroxide and a higher pH and is now sold as Adonal, Blazinal. RO9 One shot etc but it's all made by the same factory.

Then there's the former Agfa Orwo version made by Calbe which uses a pre WWII Agfa formula, has a higher p-Aminophenol content but no free hydroxide and so a lower pH. this is sold as Calbe RO9, APH09.

The problem is that the two versions don't behave quite the same. many German and Continental EU photographers prefer the older version which is why people like Mirko ant Fotoimpex sell and distribute both.

Ian

Tom Kershaw · Nov 7, 2011

Ian,

John at J&C seems to have disappeared from photography all together as far as I know. Perhaps a case for Paul Temple...

Tom

Ian Grant · Nov 7, 2011

Tom Kershaw said:
Ian,

John at J&C seems to have disappeared from photography all together as far as I know. Perhaps a case for Paul Temple...

Tom

I think Agfa threatened a major lawsuit which they'd have won, you can't pass a product off as something it isn't. You'll see J&C's packaging has the same colour scheme, pretty much the same Rodinal type face etc, I doubt Calbe were very impressed either. Then J&C also sold a lot of dodgy EFKE materials, essentially substandard with coating defects as well as miscut chinese LF films that wouldn't fit DDS. All in all not really a company you'd want to trade with.

Ian

Tom Kershaw · Nov 7, 2011

Ian Grant said:
I think Agfa threatened a major lawsuit which they'd have won, you can't pass a product off as something it isn't. You'll see J&C's packaging has the same colour scheme, pretty much the same Rodinal type face etc, I doubt Calbe were very impressed either. Then J&C also sold a lot of dodgy EFKE materials, essentially substandard with coating defects as well as miscut chinese LF films that wouldn't fit DDS. All in all not really a company you'd want to trade with.

Ian

John did seem influential for a while though, turning up at that APUG "conference" in Canada a few years ago.

Tom

Mark Fisher · Nov 7, 2011

Here is what you are looking for:

http://www.freestylephoto.biz/12054-Adox-Adonal-17-oz.-500-ml-Rodinal-Formula?cat_id=301

Roger Cole · Nov 7, 2011

Ian Grant said:
No there are only 2 versions on the market.

Genuine Agfa Rodinal as made fom the mid 1960's when the formula was changed at the time of Agfa's merger with Gevaert. This has an excess of Hydroxide and a higher pH and is now sold as Adonal, Blazinal. RO9 One shot etc but it's all made by the same factory.

Then there's the former Agfa Orwo version made by Calbe which uses a pre WWII Agfa formula, has a higher p-Aminophenol content but no free hydroxide and so a lower pH. this is sold as Calbe RO9, APH09.

The problem is that the two versions don't behave quite the same. many German and Continental EU photographers prefer the older version which is why people like Mirko ant Fotoimpex sell and distribute both.

Ian

Actually, we are both right.

When I said "several different versions" I meant "several products" as in "sold under several different names" some of which use the old formulation and some the newer, even if all the old ones are made in one place and all the new ones in one place.

The one I have that I bought meaning to try Rodinal again is this one:

http://www.freestylephoto.biz/9724-Compard-R09-One-Shot-Film-Developer-125ml-4-oz.

and at least until now I wasn't sure which one this is. So you are saying it is the 1960s+ version, not the old pre-war version, correct?

Роберт · Nov 7, 2011

Yes, this R09 one shot is the Agfa (photo) Rodinal version. But it's still made in the old Agfa chemical plant in Germany.

Gerald C Koch · Nov 7, 2011

There is no perfect developer and there is nothing magical about Rodinal. If you have been satisfied with the developers you have been using then why change. If you change developer then remember there is a learning curve which must again be mastered.

Ian Grant · Nov 7, 2011

Roger Cole said:
Actually, we are both right.

When I said "several different versions" I meant "several products" as in "sold under several different names" some of which use the old formulation and some the newer, even if all the old ones are made in one place and all the new ones in one place.

The one I have that I bought meaning to try Rodinal again is this one:

http://www.freestylephoto.biz/9724-Compard-R09-One-Shot-Film-Developer-125ml-4-oz.

and at least until now I wasn't sure which one this is. So you are saying it is the 1960s+ version, not the old pre-war version, correct?

Yes the common versions like Adonal are made by the same factory as when it was sold as Agfa Rodinal to the modern formula. again thank John of J&C for the confusion.

Ian

davidmasek · Nov 7, 2011

There is also Fomadon R09 made by Foma.

ocalheiros · Nov 7, 2011

What you can say abou PARODINAL?
I want to try to do some to develop some films.

Ian Grant · Nov 7, 2011

davidmasek said:
There is also Fomadon R09 made by Foma.

I think it was made by Calbe and sold under the Foma label, then later they switched to the modern version.

Ian

Роберт · Nov 7, 2011

I think it was made by Calbe and sold under the Foma label, then later they switched to the modern version.

Yes, they had (have ?) good connections with this former OrWo (DDR) chemical plant. In the new version (Fomadon R09 NEW) they also changed of type bottle.

So former Agfa Rodinal is sold under many different type of labels now.

pinholer · Nov 8, 2011

Ian Grant said:
No there are only 2 versions on the market.

Genuine Agfa Rodinal as made fom the mid 1960's when the formula was changed at the time of Agfa's merger with Gevaert. This has an excess of Hydroxide and a higher pH and is now sold as Adonal, Blazinal. RO9 One shot etc but it's all made by the same factory.

Then there's the former Agfa Orwo version made by Calbe which uses a pre WWII Agfa formula, has a higher p-Aminophenol content but no free hydroxide and so a lower pH. this is sold as Calbe RO9, APH09.

The problem is that the two versions don't behave quite the same. many German and Continental EU photographers prefer the older version which is why people like Mirko ant Fotoimpex sell and distribute both.

Ian

How do these formulations compare with the formula given in Anchell and Troops Film Developer Cookbook. I am curious because I make mine using the Anchell and Troop formula.

drpsilver · Nov 8, 2011

08 Nov 2011

To All:

WOW! Thanks for the input, and clarification about Agfa. I have and account at Freestyle Photo, and they have been quite reliable. I will give them a "look see" to see what they have.

I began to look at Rodinal for a couple of reasons: (1) I have heard a lot of talk about how good the developer is, so I should gather some data myself, (2) I had a small bottle of Rodinal to experiment with, and (3) I am trying to "tame the grain" of Delta 400.

Regards,
Darwin

Roger Cole · Nov 8, 2011

Delta 400? What size negative to what size print? It's grainier than TMY but less so than other 400 films I'm familiar with and, in any case, Rodinal is probably not your developer to "tame grain." If Delta 400 is too grainy and you need 400 speed try TMY-2. If that's too grainy you need a bigger negative.

Ian Grant · Nov 8, 2011

pinholer said:
How do these formulations compare with the formula given in Anchell and Troops Film Developer Cookbook. I am curious because I make mine using the Anchell and Troop formula.

Rodinal, also known by it's original Agfa formula number R09 (Rezepte 9), has always been made using p-Aminophenol free base right from it's first being formulated, that has never changed. Agfa R10 a two part developer uses p-Aminophenol Hydrochlride.

Dr Momme Andresen (of Agfa) who discovered the developing agent p-Aminophenol and frormulated Rodinal published a one shot developer in the german publication "Agfa Photo-Handbuch" in the very early 1900's and while it's close it isn't Rodinalhttp://www.lostlabours.co.uk/photography/resources/agfa_andresen.jpg as it uses p-Aminophenol Hydrochloride. Agafa publications of the same era stress it uses the free base. This is a bit complex to make at home and wasn't then commercially available.

Modern Rodinal from Agfa contains a surfactant with anti-oxidant/anti-foggant properties, (these are in a 1930's German Patent). In addition the Agfa Rodinal made from the mid 1960's also contains Potassium Bromide.

There will be differences in how the early Andresen p-Amininohenol hydrochoride one shot developer your using works and Calbe's current RO9 and also Agfa's later new version sold now as adolux etc. Those differences may be subtle and harder to spot with many of todays emulsions, keeping properties may be quite different as well.

Todays films have a greater inherrent sharpness and fineness of grain which is less affected by choice of dveloper than in the past.

Ian

cmacd123 · Nov 8, 2011

drpsilver said:
I am trying to "tame the grain" of Delta 400.

Depends on what you mean by "Tame" Rodinal is known for very sharp images, but with very sharp clear distinct grain. I have never used it with any of the Delta films, but on most films it shows the grain more clearly.

Rodinal Availability

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