Rodinal; and Ilford 1+3 dilution - too much?

rayonline_nz · Sep 26, 2019

I have only used ID-11 at stock or 1+1. How is 1+3 like? I tend to shoot Delta 100 and HP5+ in 35mm and 120 format.

I know there is much noises with Rodinal at 1+50 with modern fine grain film I liked it with Fuji Acros 100 120 format. Rodinal doesn't work with HP5+ though 35mm in my case. I find it chalky.

I am probably going back to ID-11 or some other easily soured 'standard' developer with all my film and I may use Rodinal with modern fine grain film.

Another question - doing Ilford datasheet's method. ID-11 at stock with Fuji Acros 100 there is hardly any grain. Anyone tried this method and care to comment? Some what like Delta 100 120 format with ID-11 at stock.

Cheers.

russell_w_b · Sep 27, 2019

rayonline_nz said:
I have only used ID-11 at stock or 1+1. How is 1+3 like? .

I think it's great - my untrained eye can't see any significant difference in grain and the negs come out as good as 1+1. I use 1+3 and also 1+2, which is just the mean development time of 1+1 and 1+3. The longer time may have a compensating effect on a contrasty negative, but I suppose agitation methods are relevant here in this regard. I use 1+2 not just because it has a slightly shorter dev. time than 1+3 but the storage of the stock is managed better 'cos I can keep it in 200ml bottles for 600ml of solution. I keep meaning to mix up five litres but haven't got round to it yet. 5 litre packs are certainly cheaper!

I confirmed with the Ilford team that 1+2 would work out time-wise (not quite a linear characteristic, but near enough) and the only reason they don't publicise 1+2 is that it would make their datasheets 'busier'!
--

Kind Regds,

R.

David Lyga · Oct 1, 2019

If Ilford ID11 can be used at 1 + 3 (it can) so can D-76. - David Lyga

titrisol · Oct 1, 2019

D76 or ID11 can be used at 1+3 with HP5 very well
I agree HP5 in Rodinal is a ISO200 at best otherwise it looks weird

However HP5 in DDX is brilliant!
Try it

rayonline_nz said:
I have only used ID-11 at stock or 1+1. How is 1+3 like? I tend to shoot Delta 100 and HP5+ in 35mm and 120 format.

I know there is much noises with Rodinal at 1+50 with modern fine grain film I liked it with Fuji Acros 100 120 format. Rodinal doesn't work with HP5+ though 35mm in my case. I find it chalky.

I am probably going back to ID-11 or some other easily soured 'standard' developer with all my film and I may use Rodinal with modern fine grain film.

Another question - doing Ilford datasheet's method. ID-11 at stock with Fuji Acros 100 there is hardly any grain. Anyone tried this method and care to comment? Some what like Delta 100 120 format with ID-11 at stock.

Cheers.

pentaxuser · Oct 1, 2019

I have asked this question in another thread and just in case I don't get an answer there: Does anyone know the minimum quantity if ID11 required for one film at 1+3? I had a look on the Ilford site but if the info is there on the powder developer spec sheets I failed to see it

Thanks

pentaxuser

MattKing · Oct 1, 2019

Well, the datasheet does say that one litre of stock solution can develop 10 rolls, if times are increased about 10% after each film. That works out to 100 ml stock per roll.

russell_w_b · Oct 2, 2019

For 120 film I use 150mm stock and 450mm water to make 600ml 1+3 solution. My Paterson tank says 500ml for 120 film but I like to have a bit in hand in case there's bubbling at the edge. For 35mm film you need 75ml of stock ID-11 to 225ml water for 300ml 1+3 solution. But I use ID-11 as a 'one-shot' developer anyway. Never tried re-using it, nor have I ever developed using stock ID-11.

pentaxuser · Oct 2, 2019

russell_w_b said:
For 120 film I use 150mm stock and 450mm water to make 600ml 1+3 solution. My Paterson tank says 500ml for 120 film but I like to have a bit in hand in case there's bubbling at the edge. For 35mm film you need 75ml of stock ID-11 to 225ml water for 300ml 1+3 solution. But I use ID-11 as a 'one-shot' developer anyway. Never tried re-using it, nor have I ever developed using stock ID-11.

Thanks for the reply. So if you get OK results with 1+3 @75mls for 35mm then given the surface areas are much the same with 120 and 35mm I think I can conclude that 75mls is the minimum required. The problem with 1+3 occurs with single 35mm tanks such as the Jobo or Durst which only need 250ml when the minimum of 75ml puts the total quantity up to 300 ml In that case I either use a ratio of 1:2.33 and not 3 or take a chance and drop the minimum to 62ml or use my 120 Jobo tank which holds 480 50 with two reels and in which case I might as well increase the minimum to 110ml

I may need to ask Ilford what its minimum is and if the answer is 75ml then ask, assuming they will say, whether I might get a\way with 62ml

pentaxuser

Sal Santamaura · Oct 2, 2019

pentaxuser said:
...Does anyone know the minimum quantity if ID11 required for one film at 1+3?...

Yes.

Same answer as Perceptol. The least ID-11 (D76) stock solution required to ensure adequate active ingredients and complete development regardless of what one's 80 square inches of film contain in terms of scene content is 250ml. For 1+3, that means one liter of dilute developer.

Confidence or crap shoot, the choice is yours.

pentaxuser · Oct 2, 2019

Sal Santamaura said:
Yes.

Same answer as Perceptol. The least ID-11 (D76) stock solution required to ensure adequate active ingredients and complete development regardless of what one's 80 square inches of film contain in terms of scene content is 250ml. For 1+3, that means one liter of dilute developer.

Confidence or crap shoot, the choice is yours.

As I wrote my post Sal I envisaged your reply. I was the Wichita Lineman who could hear you "singing in the wire"

pentaxuser

MattKing · Oct 2, 2019

You realize, don't you, that if you are working near the "edge" of the capacity limits, the answer will vary with the subjects you photograph.
If your subject has a lot of bright areas (think of a high key portrait of a bride in a white dress) the developer will be much more likely to exhaust locally than if your subject is mostly dark and shadowed.
Capacity recommendations always include a safety margin.

markbau · Oct 2, 2019

Sal Santamaura said:
Yes.

Same answer as Perceptol. The least ID-11 (D76) stock solution required to ensure adequate active ingredients and complete development regardless of what one's 80 square inches of film contain in terms of scene content is 250ml. For 1+3, that means one liter of dilute developer.

Confidence or crap shoot, the choice is yours.

Interesting! I use BTZS tubes to develop 8 x10. The caps fit a max of 400ml although BTZS instruction sheets recommend 250ml, (to avoid splashing before the tubes are inverted and development commences) D76 1:1 would mean 200ml of stock which you are saying is not enough. In another thread recently I mentioned that Kodak say I should be using more stock. I currently use 150ml stock for a 1:1 total of 300ml. I have been steadily increasing development time due to negs that print a bit flat but I think I'll do a zone VIII test to see what density I'm getting. I might try a development using just 250ml of stock. Thanks for posting this.

titrisol · Nov 26, 2019

I have no idea what the minimal amount of developer is for ID11-D76; however 1+3 and other dilutions (1+5, 1+7) have been used for eons with good results

pentaxuser said:
Thanks for the reply. So if you get OK results with 1+3 @75mls for 35mm then given the surface areas are much the same with 120 and 35mm I think I can conclude that 75mls is the minimum required. The problem with 1+3 occurs with single 35mm tanks such as the Jobo or Durst which only need 250ml when the minimum of 75ml puts the total quantity up to 300 ml In that case I either use a ratio of 1:2.33 and not 3 or take a chance and drop the minimum to 62ml or use my 120 Jobo tank which holds 480 50 with two reels and in which case I might as well increase the minimum to 110ml

I may need to ask Ilford what its minimum is and if the answer is 75ml then ask, assuming they will say, whether I might get a\way with 62ml

pentaxuser

Rodinal; and Ilford 1+3 dilution - too much?

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