Rodinal: A couple of questions before taking the plunge.

I haven;t used Deltas in a while, but IIRC the base color was mid-gray but clear to the eye.

I suggest next time you develop, take a piece of the leader (you are going to trash those anyway) and srop it in the fixer. See how long it takes for it to become clear and use double that time as a minumum.
I generally use 3-4 times that much

Soeren said:

:confused:
Now you really got me dizzy. All that gamma and CI talk.
Sticking to dev times and film size. 120 film needs to be developed more than 135, right ?. Is it really that significant ? In the start I had some problems with my devtimes (FP4+) somehow my MF negs printed very easy while my 135 negs still where more difficult. Ok I shoot a wider range of subjects with different contrast on 135 film so thats a part of the problem but does the filmsize matter that much. I think I have my times nailed down about right for my condenser enlarger and my way of printing but maybe it could still be improved.
Condenser vs Diffused light. It's better to stick to one type when youre a beginner, right ?
It still seem like the (my) EI setting should be a bit lower than the ISO recomended by ILFORD (and FUJI). But that seems normal when reading through your posts ? I feel some of my negs lack detail in the shadows.
Now after six month with B&W I might be ready to do some testing of my personal filmspeed and dev times and .... so.......
I learned something today
Regards Søren

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I highly recommend that you conduct testing for film speed and development times as soon as possible. If you use several different cameras, same format or different formats, there is a good chance that you will rate film speed differently for each camera, and in the case of MF and LF each lens and shutter may test differently. If you have not already read Ansal Adams The Negative and The Print find and read both books, take a workshop. Although I do not use the Zone system (mostly by temperment) one of the best weeks I spent was learning the zone system from Minor White in the 60s.

Regards

SchwinnParamount said:

Doesn't that mean you are over-exposing and under-developing the film? It will work of course, but does that negatively (ouch ) affect the grain in the negative?

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I am not overexposing as I arrived at my film rating via exposing for Zone I = 0.1 above (fb+f) - although I prefer 0.15 myself. I arrives at the 6 minutes (at 70F) via Zone VIII = 1.35

SchwinnParamount,
I second what Jack said. A good book for beginners is The Zone VI Workshop by Fred Picker.

Paul Howell said:

I highly recommend that you conduct testing for film speed and development times as soon as possible. If you use several different cameras, same format or different formats, there is a good chance that you will rate film speed differently for each camera, and in the case of MF and LF each lens and shutter may test differently. If you have not already read Ansal Adams The Negative and The Print find and read both books, take a workshop. Although I do not use the Zone system (mostly by temperment) one of the best weeks I spent was learning the zone system from Minor White in the 60s.

Regards

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I suppose you are mostly refering to different lightmeters
((and meteringpaterns)) ?. Ok the shutterspeed may vary from the all Electronic F90X to the all mecanical Yashica mat 124G through FE, QL17 and Holga
Rereading the negative might be beneficial as you suggests.
Testing HMM quick n dirty filmspeedanddevelopmenttest ? Do I need to do more than determin when I get details in the shadows (speed) and then when the highlights blows (dev) ? that should be simple enough. I suppose Spotmetering or incident metering is most usefull because of some AIS lenses in the bag.
Ups, I think I'm threadjacking sorry.
Regards Søren

Oh -- for crying out loud....

Enough. Will you just DO it... and see what happens?

Who knows .. you might just stumble over something you really like.

Soeren said:

I suppose you are mostly refering to different lightmeters
((and meteringpaterns)) ?. Ok the shutterspeed may vary from the all Electronic F90X to the all mecanical Yashica mat 124G through FE, QL17 and Holga
Rereading the negative might be beneficial as you suggests.
Testing HMM quick n dirty filmspeedanddevelopmenttest ? Do I need to do more than determin when I get details in the shadows (speed) and then when the highlights blows (dev) ? that should be simple enough. I suppose Spotmetering or incident metering is most usefull because of some AIS lenses in the bag.
Ups, I think I'm threadjacking sorry.
Regards Søren

Click to expand...

Read either Pickerings or Adams both authors give detailed instructions on how to test for film speed. I don't have the title at my finger tips but there is a very good text on 35 mm and the Zone system. But if follow the train of thought all the way though testing of film speed to print time and developers you will have a much better understanding of the interplay of the negative and the print. The final result is a tool that allows you to previsualize or take creative control so you can determine how you want the final print to look.

It seems like a lot of work, but it will save you money and time. My training is in photojounanalism and I rarely think in terms of zone, I',m looking for a moment in time that captures an event and I work often by intuition, but by testing my film and developer combinations as well as my paper and paper developer in advance 90% of the time I can get a working print without needing a test strip or using an enlarging meter. (Working print not the presentation print).

I suggest starting with the camera/lightmeter that you use most often, pick the film/ developer and paper/developer you use most often. Once you find the best film speed developer combinations that give you the print quality you are looking for save that negative and print as use it as reference. If you don't have access to a density you can still do the testing by inpection. Then test your other cameras and films so you have a choice of formats and speeds, then developers, one size does not fit all and you will different tools.

This thread is very amusing to me. Just start using the Rodinal at the manufacturer's recommendations, and adjust you development times from there until you have good normal development. Then start playing with film speed and contraction and expansion. Just take the plunge, it'll be fun!

Ya know, you can really learn from mistakes too...

Enjoy Rodinal, it's a great developer if you like sharp negatives and don't mind the grain.

- Thomas