Rochester news about Kodak

Photo Engineer · Feb 3, 2011

Today, for the first time, Kodak announced that film sales had fallen into the red. This was a featured segment on the local news along with a speech by Perez at the stockholders meeting in NYC about the bright hope in other areas.

A local analyst stated that this indicates that the end is probably near unless the economy turns around. He speculated that someone would step in and keep the equipment, buildings and people intact and continue some level of production.

Not doom and gloom, just reality. The prediction is for EK to make it or break it in 2012.

PE

Sirius Glass · Feb 3, 2011

I needed to hear this kind of news like I need a case of cholera.

domaz · Feb 3, 2011

Film is now a niche product and Kodak has to ramp down production and facilities to operate at niche levels economically. That is a hard challenge. Strangely it's much easier to grow than it is to shrink.

SWphoto · Feb 3, 2011

I'm not a Kodak-basher, have said nice things before about them, and have a very large order of Kodak 120/4x5 film in shipment, but I don't see any reason to continue and go down with the ship- Ilford will get my business from now on. Perez won't be happy until it's gone- so be it.

Sad state of affairs, but time to move on and support a firm which has focus on the business. I feel sorry for the dedicated workers who will, of course (unlike Perez), pay the price.

Dave in Kansas · Feb 3, 2011

PE,

What does your crystal ball say about the feasibility or possibility of a smaller film operation at Kodak surviving similar to Ilford?

Dave

Photo Engineer · Feb 3, 2011

Dave;

It is possible if they do it right. They can outsource film support manufacture and subbing operations to someone like ICI. Other things can be done so that Kodak does not hold on to every aspect and thus they can reduce costs. IDK for sure. I just hope for the best.

PE

yeknom02 · Feb 3, 2011

Kodak really seems to be a tale of two companies at the moment. I've been ecstatic and optimistic given the outstanding quality of Ektar and the new Portra. But all the bad financial news and subsequent shift of the rhetoric away from film frighten me.

It's not like there's anywhere else I can turn to get my HC-110.

Photo Engineer · Feb 3, 2011

Well, it has been mentioned that Kodak is working on new film products.

PE

BetterSense · Feb 3, 2011

I just hope I can continue to buy TMY in many formats. The rest of the Kodak line can more or less be substituted, IMO.

tomalophicon · Feb 3, 2011

A local analyst? I can be a local analyst too. And whose prediction was this make it or break it thing?

JayGannon · Feb 3, 2011

I wonder does that inculde motion picture stock production?

Photo Engineer · Feb 3, 2011

A prominent local wall street analyst is retained by the local NBC feed. I took this from his statements and from the comments made by Perez as run on the local evening news. The analyst is often interviewed locally. I'm sorry, but I cannot remember his name.

PE

ciocc · Feb 3, 2011

I'm going down with the ship.

removed account4 · Feb 3, 2011

unfortunately this isn't surprising news

2F/2F · Feb 3, 2011

Time to stock up on T-Max and Tri-X.

brucemuir · Feb 3, 2011

I will truly be bummed when TriX is gone

PeteZ8 · Feb 3, 2011

I wonder how much of this has to do with film sales, and how much of it has to do with the skyrocketing cost of manufacturing? Oil and energy are at all time highs. Silver, although a very small percentage of which is used in filmmaking, is also at a record high. Oil and energy costs are driving up materials costs across the board as a result of higher cost to manufacture and delivery.

Here is an example. I am in manufacturing sales, and due to the copper market, one of our core products has gone up 12% in just ONE MONTH! It is up 30% total from this time last year.

Granted the copper market does not affect film production as much as it does other industries, but it does go to show how the cost of doing business in a manufacturing environment has risen considerably. In a slim profit margin business a 5-10% increase in materials can spell disaster for profits if those costs cannot be readily passed on to the consumer. Of course, that does not always work either as it can drive down sales decreasing the economy of scale necessary to mass produce complex items like film.

Illford has an advantage over Kodak. They are a relative latecomer to the game. Their goal has always been to remain small and cater to a niche market. They designed their product and process around that philosophy from the beginning. Kodak, on the other hand, is the 800 lb gorilla that not so long ago was selling film to everyone from Ansel Adams to grandma Edna. The rug was quickly, and violently, yanked from beneath them. In many ways they are still spinning around trying to figure out their place in this brave new world.

It's a mess...

2F/2F · Feb 3, 2011

PeteZ8 said:
Illford has an advantage over Kodak. They are a relative latecomer to the game. Their goal has always been to remain small and cater to a niche market. They designed their product and process around that philosophy from the beginning. Kodak, on the other hand, is the 800 lb gorilla that not so long ago was selling film to everyone from Ansel Adams to grandma Edna. The rug was quickly, and violently, yanked from beneath them. In many ways they are still spinning around trying to figure out their place in this brave new world.

Ilford has actually been around longer than Eastman/Kodak TMK, and was also one of the main players in the photo materials industry. If you are speaking of the newer Harman version of Ilford, then I would agree.

removed account4 · Feb 3, 2011

harman and eastman started coating plates at about the same time 1879

munz6869 · Feb 3, 2011

What rotten news! I suppose the best thing to do is enjoy it while it lasts....

Marc!

hoffy · Feb 3, 2011

Would the loss of Kodak ultimately effect those who dabble with Black and white photography? While you may lose your favourite film, there are alternatives and I am sure many would adapt.

But what about those who like to play in colour? Sure, you still have Fuji, but in reality, for how long? Black and White will continue and become the niche. Colour is what I fear will become extinct

2F/2F · Feb 3, 2011

munz6869 said:
What rotten news! I suppose the best thing to do is enjoy it while it lasts....

Marc!

I will enjoy it while it lasts, stock up, and hope that somebody else can smoothly take over manufacture of their formulas within a sustainable business structure. We will lose some great stuff if they go......T-Max, Tri-X, Portra...ah, hell.

lns · Feb 3, 2011

This actually seems not be be new information, just one stockbroker's spin on things. Kodak released its quarterly and annual results about a week ago. It reported that film had posted an operational loss ("slipped into the red," as per the original post) for the fourth quarter of 2010 due to declining sales and increasing costs of raw materials. Kodak already indicated it would raise prices and perhaps cut some film products because of this. There is a thread about this on APUG. Today's story arises because Kodak had its annual meeting for shareholders today in NYC, I think.

The stockbroker referenced in the original post is probably George Conboy, and his words are here: http://www.whec.com/news/stories/s1956065.shtml

I didn't see anything new mentioned about film in the news stories that I skimmed today. In fact, Perez seems to go out of his way never to talk about film. And with respect, this is one stockbroker's opinion. Even if he's 100 percent right, he talks about Kodak selling the film division. Which means someone else would buy it, presumably to operate it. Kodak's film business would "go away" only in the sense that Kodak would no longer own it.

By the way, as I read the release about the 2010 financial results, the film business posted an operating profit for 2010 as a whole. Revenues and profits are declining, however. Kodak has been stating it would get out of the film business as long as Perez has been in charge. If that date arrives in 2011 or 2012, who knows, it might be all to the good.

-Laura

michaelbsc · Feb 3, 2011

jnanian said:
harman and eastman started coating plates at about the same time 1879

What we have today is the \"Son of Ilford\" rather than the contemporary of Eastman Kodak.

By all accounts the son is stronger because of the pruning that occurred during the receivership. Let\'s hope Kodak can pull off the same transformation. But the current Kodak and the current Ilford are not really comparable.

bsdunek · Feb 3, 2011

I would just hope they don't sell the film manufacturing to a Chinese company.

Rochester news about Kodak

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