Robert Capa's D-Day Darkroom Fiasco....

DF · Jun 6, 2019

....Is that, supposedly, one of the guys was so nervous to see the results is that he overheated or overdid something to ruin most of the shots. Just how true is this - given the nature of censorship, would the top brass really want everyone/anyone to see the horrors of this most bloody carnage?

Helios 1984 · Jun 6, 2019

Here's an interesting article from PetaPixel.

Theo Sulphate · Jun 6, 2019

Helios 1984 said:
Here's an interesting article from PetaPixel.

Interesting indeed. Fakery abounds, even from the beginning of war photography:

https://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com/2007/09/25/which-came-first-the-chicken-or-the-egg-part-one/

AgX · Jun 7, 2019

I only recently heard of this dryer story at all and a lot of question marks arose immediately. But as that D-day photo was/is a none issue over here I did not bother to research further as Coleman did.
(Though without being blinded by all the stories around it, it likely would have been easier for me than Coleman.)

And would I have seen those "moved" frame edges, I would have never thought of emulsion sliding off.

In general I have experienced amazing ignorance at art historians lecturing on photography when it comes to technics.

Mr Flibble · Jun 7, 2019

As most of the Military footage of the landing accidentally went into the Channel Capa's few images are pretty much the only ones we have of the early landings.

Cholentpot · Jun 7, 2019

I never bought the story.

I think he landed on the beach and noped out. Shot a roll or two as fast as he can and get out while he was able.

cowanw · Jun 7, 2019

Mr Flibble said:
As most of the Military footage of the landing accidentally went into the Channel Capa's few images are pretty much the only ones we have of the early landings.

Not including

Charles Roos, who was the first Allied cameraman ashore on D-Day. Roos' film of Canadian soldiers disembarking under fire on Juno Beach is among the most iconic footage of the D-Day Landings.
Lieutenant Ken Bell, who landed on Juno Beach on D-Day with The Highland Light Infantry of Canada, and shot the only surviving colour footage of D-Day.
Sergeant D.W. Grant, who on D-Day filmed approximately two minutes of motion picture footage of soldiers of The North Shore Regiment landing at Bernières-sur-Mer. The film was quickly sent to England and cleared for distribution by news outlets.
Ten British Army Film and Photographic Unit members were attached to the main divisions during the Normandy landings in June 1944. Their cameramen wereamongst the first waves ashore .

CMoore · Jun 7, 2019

DF said:
....Is that, supposedly, one of the guys was so nervous to see the results is that he overheated or overdid something to ruin most of the shots. Just how true is this - given the nature of censorship, would the top brass really want everyone/anyone to see the horrors of this most bloody carnage?

D-Day...especially the Air-Borne... went WAY BETTER than their worst case scenarios.
There is a lot of film of Every battle in the ET and PT.
What would have been so worrisome about June 6.?
Everything went fine.
The Nazis spent Hundred of Millions of German Marks on the (immediate) Atlantic Defenses and The Allies went through them in about 24 hours.
The flattening of the town and monastery at Cassino is STILL a source of friction to this day. Film of that place being vaporized has been watched (almost) as often as June 5/6.

gordrob · Jun 7, 2019

cowanw said:
Not including

Charles Roos, who was the first Allied cameraman ashore on D-Day. Roos' film of Canadian soldiers disembarking under fire on Juno Beach is among the most iconic footage of the D-Day Landings.

Lieutenant Ken Bell, who landed on Juno Beach on D-Day with The Highland Light Infantry of Canada, and shot the only surviving colour footage of D-Day.

Sergeant D.W. Grant, who on D-Day filmed approximately two minutes of motion picture footage of soldiers of The North Shore Regiment landing at Bernières-sur-Mer. The film was quickly sent to England and cleared for distribution by news outlets.

Ten British Army Film and Photographic Unit members were attached to the main divisions during the Normandy landings in June 1944. Their cameramen wereamongst the first waves ashore .

Your link to Charles Roos goes to an American economist. You were probably looking for Bud Roos of the Canadian Army Film and Photo Unit.
http://espritdecorps.ca/history-fea...-reality-of-the-battlefield-to-the-home-front

faberryman · Jun 7, 2019

A.D.Coleman has been stirring up controversy for decades.

AgX · Jun 7, 2019

Not bad in a world with a clique of art-historians all telling the same story...

cowanw · Jun 7, 2019

gordrob said:
Your link to Charles Roos goes to an American economist. You were probably looking for Bud Roos of the Canadian Army Film and Photo Unit.
http://espritdecorps.ca/history-fea...-reality-of-the-battlefield-to-the-home-front

For sure,
thanks

nmp · Jun 7, 2019

faberryman said:
A.D.Coleman has been stirring up controversy for decades.

Kind of like Lyndon LaRouche of the photography world.

Mr Flibble · Jun 13, 2019

cowanw said:
Not including

I was talking about the American landing zones in particular. The Signal Photo Company stuff from the early morning was all but lost during a ship-to-ship transfer.

Patrick Robert James · Jun 13, 2019

It has been pretty much proven at this point that the whole Capa D-Day myth is just that, a made up story. Even John Morris admitted on Amanpour's show before he died that it never happened. It is like a lot of fairy tales though. People want to believe it.

EdSawyer · Jun 13, 2019

Coleman is a lot more reliable and far less of a nutter than larouche is/was

jtk · Jan 27, 2020

DF said:
....Is that, supposedly, one of the guys was so nervous to see the results is that he overheated or overdid something to ruin most of the shots. Just how true is this - given the nature of censorship, would the top brass really want everyone/anyone to see the horrors of this most bloody carnage?

Capa, as quoted in the Phaedon book Robert Capa, reported the film dryer story...

For obvious reasons some people need to diminish Capa and his heroism.

AgX · Jan 27, 2020

jtk said:
Capa, as quoted in the Phaedon book Robert Capa, reported the film dryer story...

What does that mean for truth?

Mr Flibble · Jan 29, 2020

"Show me a hero and I'll prove he's a bum" - Gregory "Pappy" Boyington

dickgillberg · Jan 29, 2020

I have a copy of Capa's book "slightly out of focus" in my hands right now. The swedish version and translated. I see his pictures and stories and he is a hero for me. The pictures from D-day is incredible and he also wrote that he tried to got away as soon as possible, if I were in the same place so would I. In the back paper of the book it states that from the original edition, he wrote "to write the truth is hard and I in the interest sometimes allowed me to go beyond, but not about persons or situations" roughly translated from swedish by me. Sorry if I translated it wrong. He have done so much for photography so he's my hero for sure.

StepheKoontz · Jan 29, 2020

What you see in those images is a common problem with early Leica bodies using preloaded cartridge film. They were designed for a FILCA bulk loaded cartridge, which is longer. They finally resolved the issue on the IIIf with a tongue made onto the baseplate that guides the film into position when using commercial preloads. The emulsion did NOT slide on the film!

AgX · Jan 29, 2020

Furthermore, one may try melting wet emulsion and try to gain something that replicates the situation we are shown above.

Mr Flibble · Jan 29, 2020

StepheKoontz said:
What you see in those images is a common problem with early Leica bodies using preloaded cartridge film. They were designed for a FILCA bulk loaded cartridge, which is longer. They finally resolved the issue on the IIIf with a tongue made onto the baseplate that guides the film into position when using commercial preloads. The emulsion did NOT slide on the film!

Of course, Capa wasn't carrying Leica cameras when he landed at Omaha.

StepheKoontz · Jan 29, 2020

Mr Flibble said:
Of course, Capa wasn't carrying Leica cameras when he landed at Omaha.

The early Contax's had the same issue.

reddesert · Jan 29, 2020

I read the petapixel article, and it seems that AD Coleman writes an enormous buildup about how he's going to deflate Robert Capa and the myth of the melted negatives, and the end result is that he discovers:
- Robert Capa was actually on the beach at D-Day, actually took pictures of soldiers, landed a little later than the myth says, and mis-identified the type of a tank.
- The negatives were messed up in camera and not in processing.

The one who is inflating a myth here is AD Coleman. There's a phrase "the fog of war." I have never been in combat, but pretty much everyone who ever has, says that it's chaotic and at the time nobody knows WTF is going on.

Robert Capa's D-Day Darkroom Fiasco....

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