Richest tonal range B&W film available today?

Verichrome Pan would be the best film, except for the small fact that it has not been made in a few decades.

So getting past that, FP4+ or HP5+ depending on the light is a fine way to start. Good quality control, easy to get and process. Pick a paper that fits the image and have fun!

There's a bit of a tradeoff involved. Films with the longest dynamic range tend to be more fussy about correct exposure. There are a couple
of ways you can look at this. Learn the ropes and how to correctly meter shadow values and develop the film accordingly - takes patience,
but is rewarding in the long run, or option B, select a film that is a little more forgiving. Long scale films like both speeds of TMax fall into the former category - they'll handle quite a range of illuminance, but are more finicky about precise exposure. But note that this is related to matching the contrast of the scene to the personality of the film. "Richness" of the image can be achieved any number of ways and there is simply no generic answer to that question. A film and developer which works best in one set of circumstances might not in another, and
there's really no way to understand this until someone has been on the road a bit. So I agree with Vaughn, just pick a popular film and
developer and stick with it until it either makes sense or there is some distinct reason to switch. Overthinking all this in advance can be
counterproductive. Never underestimate the fun factor. Once someone is infected with that, the rest comes naturally.

Let's not forget this thread is about an 11 year old wanting to try developing her own film and prints. Give her a 400 speed film, an easy to operate automatic camera, and some 8x10 RC paper. Let her discover the magic first. Then, let her learn refinements at her own pace. Getting too technical, too early, will probably drive her away.

MattKrull said:

Unfortunately, for really smooth tones, my fall back is my bulk supply of Plus-X, which isn't going to do you any good. I haven't played with the current crop of medium speed (ie iso100) films. Anyone have any feedback on Retro 80S for this? I would think that would fit your wants, but I've never used it.

Going for something digital can't do, I'd suggest Delta 400 as well. It has a particular way of rendering shiny metal that I haven't found with any other film. It is very sharp, but still makes pleasing portraits. I've heard it looks digital to some people, but I don't find that.

The suggestion of Tmax400 is a good one for it's huge range. I mean, one dev time and take your pick of ISO200-800, that's pretty forgiving, especially when learning.

The other thing I'd recommend is focusing on a really nice paper. The paper is what your daughter is going to see and hold, so getting something special there should be just as important as the film. Personally, I'm a huge fan of Adox 312 (pearl VC RC). There is something about it I find magical. I'm using magical in the sense of "sufficiently advanced technology..." I can't tell you why I prefer Adox 312 to Ilford MGIV, but it just looks better to me.

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80S is very smooth because of it's ridiculously fine grain, it's far finer than T-Max etc, even in Rodinal it's ridiculously fine. Fairly sure this won't work with a grain focuser in the dark room.

MattKrull said:

Unfortunately, for really smooth tones, my fall back is my bulk supply of Plus-X, which isn't going to do you any good. I haven't played with the current crop of medium speed (ie iso100) films. Anyone have any feedback on Retro 80S for this? I would think that would fit your wants, but I've never used it.

Going for something digital can't do, I'd suggest Delta 400 as well. It has a particular way of rendering shiny metal that I haven't found with any other film. It is very sharp, but still makes pleasing portraits. I've heard it looks digital to some people, but I don't find that.

The suggestion of Tmax400 is a good one for it's huge range. I mean, one dev time and take your pick of ISO200-800, that's pretty forgiving, especially when learning.

The other thing I'd recommend is focusing on a really nice paper. The paper is what your daughter is going to see and hold, so getting something special there should be just as important as the film. Personally, I'm a huge fan of Adox 312 (pearl VC RC). There is something about it I find magical. I'm using magical in the sense of "sufficiently advanced technology..." I can't tell you why I prefer Adox 312 to Ilford MGIV, but it just looks better to me.

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I don't see Adox MCP 312 anymore. Freestyle, as far as I know the only North American distributor of Adox, has only the MCC fiber base and the MCP 310 glossy in 20x24 and 5x7. They only have their store brand version, Arista Private reserve, in 5x7 in the pearl. Looks like this one is going away and almost gone.

I tried some a while back. It was ok but I preferred Ilford, for the response to toners if nothing else. The FB MCC is very fine paper, but probably not what an 11 year old should start with. I'd just go with MGIV RC in either pearl or glossy.

I don't think "will probably" are the correct words to use about driving her away. "Will certainly" drive her away is better. The same is true about introducing anyone (8 to 80) to film developing and printing for the very first time. That's a bit like being "rung out" by the instructer on your first flying lesson. It can take the fun right out of the experience......Regards!

eddie said:

Let's not forget this thread is about an 11 year old wanting to try developing her own film and prints. Give her a 400 speed film, an easy to operate automatic camera, and some 8x10 RC paper. Let her discover the magic first. Then, let her learn refinements at her own pace. Getting too technical, too early, will probably drive her away.

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Thank you. It's easy for me to lose sight of that and get way to technical about it all. She's much more artistic than I am, like her mom in that sense, which is a good thing! I will keep all this in mind when we start, and yes, I did decide to go for the "easy to operate automatic camera" option - in my mind I was choosing between my two old favorites: the XD-11 or the Maxxum 7. In the end, I realize it will be a easier to teach her with the Maxxum 7 because of the spot meter and visual metering scale on the back, brighter finder, etc. So I got a matching set of Maxxum 7 and 24-105 lens (used of course) ordered for each of us tonight.

I'll try to have a look around on various galleries and see what tonal range of neg / developer strikes me as beautiful, but I see the take home is that they are all going to blow the paper out of the water, so it's kind of moot right now in the beginning for her. I just wanted to have the prints look special and give film the best chance in her young eyes!

Roger Cole said:

I don't see Adox MCP 312 anymore. Freestyle, as far as I know the only North American distributor of Adox, has only the MCC fiber base and the MCP 310 glossy in 20x24 and 5x7. They only have their store brand version, Arista Private reserve, in 5x7 in the pearl. Looks like this one is going away and almost gone.

I tried some a while back. It was ok but I preferred Ilford, for the response to toners if nothing else. The FB MCC is very fine paper, but probably not what an 11 year old should start with. I'd just go with MGIV RC in either pearl or glossy.

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Roger

Just because your US supplier doesn't have it, it doesn't mean it is going anywhere.

See the manufacturer's shop in Berlin: http://www.fotoimpex.de/shopen/syst...topaper variable contrast&cache=&pn=36&sort=0

Ricardo Miranda said:

Roger

Just because your US supplier doesn't have it, it doesn't mean it is going anywhere.

See the manufacturer's shop in Berlin: http://www.fotoimpex.de/shopen/syst...topaper variable contrast&cache=&pn=36&sort=0

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Of course. But I was replying to Matt who lives in Canada. As far as I know, Freestyle is the North American distributor but I could be wrong about that and there could be a Canadian source. I shouldn't have said "going away and almost gone" though, rather something like "won't be available here."

Of course it's probably available by ordering from Europe but that would add a lot of shipping costs for RC paper.

It's a good paper. Nothing wrong with it, except it didn't tone very well for me. It did cool slightly in selenium but seemed completely impervious to brown toner. That might not matter to the OP though.

Off-topic:

Roger, thankfully Argentix.ca (one of our awesome APUG sponsors) carries MCP 310/312. Not including shipping it is priced competatively with Ilford MGIV from the local photo chain.

Unfortunately, FreeStyle has very expensive cross border shipping rates. B&H just started free shipping to Canada on orders over $99, so they're getting all my cross border business right now. Semi-related to this thread, I have 100 sheet of Oriental VC RC-II Pearl on the way from B&H. I'm looking forward to trying it out.

/off-topic

oldtimermetoo said:

I don't think "will probably" are the correct words to use about driving her away. "Will certainly" drive her away is better.

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I chose "probably" because I don't know how determined, or stubborn, she can be.
I think Dad should just let her loose with stuff that will get her an image on the paper. Then, he needs to be ready to answer questions like, "How do I make the tree darker?"... " How do I make the white shirt white, not gray?" Small steps...

I get the impression the printing part will not be an issue for you since your daughter already has experienced that. You could also make a "large format" pinhole camera out of a box or can.

A quick and easy introduction to printing could be something like "Sun Prints."
You could start with photo-grams, then do it with negatives (though 35mm mite not be so interesting). Just contact print in the sun, and rinse with water. This could let you two play with it while you are getting your darkroom up to speed.

yeah make it fun and make it big! kids are impressed by the basics. have a bit of music playing too. make life fun for them - remember the movie 'Life is Beautiful' when the Dad helped his son thru the Holocaust by making it a game. that is what kids need to get them interested in b&w photography. the more the merrier! if we get more kids into it, then maybe there will be less posts here for film RIPs.
good luck with the project.

Truzi said:

I get the impression the printing part will not be an issue for you since your daughter already has experienced that. You could also make a "large format" pinhole camera out of a box or can.

A quick and easy introduction to printing could be something like "Sun Prints."
You could start with photo-grams, then do it with negatives (though 35mm mite not be so interesting). Just contact print in the sun, and rinse with water. This could let you two play with it while you are getting your darkroom up to speed.

Click to expand...

couldn't agree more ...

i have turned 6 grammar school art classes onto
making cyanotype photograms --- simple is good ..
aside from emptying her pockets or the household
junk drawer/tool box, plants, leaves &c
onto he paper ... let her put plastic on it that she drew on herself
so she sees how the negative is like a stencil and how it looks like on the blue print.
its a good lead in to what the negative exposed on the paper is doing.

have fun!
john

M6F6E6 said:

yeah make it fun and make it big! kids are impressed by the basics. have a bit of music playing too. make life fun for them - remember the movie 'Life is Beautiful' when the Dad helped his son thru the Holocaust by making it a game. that is what kids need to get them interested in b&w photography. the more the merrier! if we get more kids into it, then maybe there will be less posts here for film RIPs.
good luck with the project.

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+1.

Currently my favorite B&W film is Ilford HP5+ for panchromatic film, and Rollei IR400s for an infrared film. I shoot the HP5+ at box speed (allowing the camera to meter through a filter if I'm using one). The IR400s can be shot as a panchromatic film, and I allow the camera to meter through the filter, unless it's my IR720 filter. With the IR720, I meter at ISO 25 (with no filter), screw the filter on, and shoot.

eddie said:

Let's not forget this thread is about an 11 year old wanting to try developing her own film and prints. Give her a 400 speed film, an easy to operate automatic camera, and some 8x10 RC paper.

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I recall when I was that age I was using mainly Plus-x and Tri-X, partly because they were easily available. A smart kid does not need an automatic camera--basic exposure stuff is not that hard--I had my dad's Agfa Silette and used the info sheets that came with the film. No meter. An encouraging camp counselor got me to try some Ilford stuff too, but getting it meant going across town to the real camera shop.

So I would say, it does not matter much what you choose. They're going to have fun learning the process, they can worry about the fine points later.

And I still have many of the negatives.

HP5+ is capable of some lovely tones if handled well. I have moved to it from a long time using film in yellow boxes.

Life Buoy, Padstow. by johnbragg1, on Flickr