Richest tonal range B&W film available today?

A crazy thing happened last night. Just out of the blue, our 11 year old daughter said she had happy memories of hanging out in the darkroom with me when she was younger, and asked if we could set something up again because she'd like to try it herself. :confused: What's even crazier is my wife said that since she's artistically inclined, I should do it. I don't think I've shot any film for about 3 years. And then, I was into things like ADOX CMS 20, etc, trying to see how big I could print from a 35mm neg.

I'd like to approach this from a different angle this time. I get that my daughter is growing up with iPhone, Internet, digital cameras, shoot - digital everything. The only thing I can think of that might make an impression artistically on her is the unique tonal range of B&W silver halide film. To be honest, my prior film/dev testing was quite limited to shooting the sharpest, tightest grain neg & developer combo I could get my hands on.

I realize this is going to be very subjective, but here goes...
Of all the films that are still available, what would be one or two of the films / dev combos you all just love the "look" or tonal range of? I remember 10 years ago I shot a roll of Agfa APX 100 one time, and developed in D76 a few shots were almost sparkly looking when printed small, if that makes any sense. Is it true that older style, higher silver content films will be more "beautiful" when printed, or is that a myth of some sort? We will be shooting with 35mm roll film if it makes any difference, and probably won't be printing too big, at least not until she gets the hang of things!
Thank you for any suggestions for us, this could turn into a fun project.
Jed

Congrats! Didn't get such a compliment, ever.
Well, the real APX is long gone .
Among the remaining 10^12 options, in your case, I'd consider TMax 400 or Iford Delta 400, developed in Xtol (1+1). Some may prefer HP5 / Trix, more grain though. With 400 speed there's less risk for camera shake in the child's hands, the 400-films are very forgiving to exposure errors, xtol is not toxic, foolproof in use (follow directions!). The chance to have negatives which are easy to print and give presentable pictures at the first go should be more encouraging than striving at 250% from start. Just my thought. Hope you'll have a good time snapping along and the in the darkroom!

Yo Jed, long time...

Isn't RPX from Rollei rebadged Agfa? You can still find some outdated APX 100 on ebay.

If you want something new, try Ilford's FP-4. Good stuff. I never cared for the t-grain films, but that's me.

Unfortunately, for really smooth tones, my fall back is my bulk supply of Plus-X, which isn't going to do you any good. I haven't played with the current crop of medium speed (ie iso100) films. Anyone have any feedback on Retro 80S for this? I would think that would fit your wants, but I've never used it.

Going for something digital can't do, I'd suggest Delta 400 as well. It has a particular way of rendering shiny metal that I haven't found with any other film. It is very sharp, but still makes pleasing portraits. I've heard it looks digital to some people, but I don't find that.

The suggestion of Tmax400 is a good one for it's huge range. I mean, one dev time and take your pick of ISO200-800, that's pretty forgiving, especially when learning.

The other thing I'd recommend is focusing on a really nice paper. The paper is what your daughter is going to see and hold, so getting something special there should be just as important as the film. Personally, I'm a huge fan of Adox 312 (pearl VC RC). There is something about it I find magical. I'm using magical in the sense of "sufficiently advanced technology..." I can't tell you why I prefer Adox 312 to Ilford MGIV, but it just looks better to me.

Nope RPX is not APX Rollei Retro 100 and 400 were APX, Retro 400s = Agfa Aviphot. Supposedly Adox Silvermax comes close. Fomapan 100 also resembles APX under certain circumstances. The higher Silvercontent of APX is a myth it just had the best middle tones of any film, believe it or not T-Max 100 at E.I. is a good substitute for APX

I'd recommend focusing on the paper as well. Any film will work for get good midtone separation, if that's what you're looking for, and normal development. Some of the papers available can have a look that's very different from digital, even more so with toning if you care to work with that.

hi jed

i think any film and any paper will be fun.
i am trying to get my kids hooked on silver too
but rather than the richness &c aspect of film
i am trying to impress tangible, fun and unique ( and hand made ) ...
and like a meal made from scratch good things come when you spend time ..
instant is good but something that takes a while always tends to taste better.
i've shot paper negatives with them too, they had fun ... ( and less of a wait for impatient kids )

.. good luck !

- john

Richest tonal range B&W film available today?

Michael R 1974 said:

Virtually all the medium/medium-high speed films. FP4, Tri-X, TMax, TMY-2, Delta 100, Fuji Acros. They will all do it, and all work extremely well in D-76.

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+1. Or 400 speed films. Or Rodinal, or HC-110, etc. There's no silver bullet of using one particular film and bingo, there to go. Just got to dial it in. That said find a print or example you like or that has that sparkle you desire and find out which film and developer was used. That's as good a place to start as any. But do not let her or you be disappointed if your first try with that combo is not perfect. Just remember the lighting, exposure and development technique will play just as an important role as which film or developer you use. Good news is practically any combo can be dialed in just got to make it happen and not get impatient.

You do not have to worry, does not matter which camera, which film, which paper... as soon as it comes up in the darkroom... that's magic !!!! and your the magician and you have got them forever....

Simon ILFORD Photo / HARMAN technology Limited :

Simon R Galley said:

... as soon as it comes up in the darkroom... that's magic !!!!

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Exactly! My first darkroom experience was at 13. I knew nothing about tonality, film characteristics, paper, etc. But, seeing the image emerge from a blank piece of paper hooked me. 40+ years later, I know a little more, but the magic still has its hold.

It's hard to go wrong with any of the Ilford or Kodak films in my opinion. I'm also sure some of the smaller manufacturers are also great, but I haven't tried them.

I'd settle on a 100 and a 400 speed film and get the development times down before you turn the film over to her. Then she will have easy negatives to print and won't be as likely to get frustrated.

Dear Eddie,

Same for me...I was a little younger about 6 in my Grandfathers Darkroom... and 40+ years later that one moment defined my life and my career...

Simon ILFORD Photo / HARMAN technology Limited :

I've got very good tonal range with Ilford Delta 100 lately. But honestly any current B/W film can give you great tonality once you adjust the development time and exposure to your tastes. If you want soft tonality i think FP4 can be a starting point. I would say that Delta 100 gives you "modern, clean, brilliant" tonality. If you like "hard", contrasty tonality you can try Fomapan 100 at ISO 100.

Also don't forget the use of B/W filters -- for example a yellow filter can do some wonders.

I prefer 400 speed non-tabular film like HP5+ and Tri-X, and an easy mixing, long shelf life liquid developer like HC-110.

I agree with John and SImon and Richard. As someone once said, "It's all good".
Have fun and make sure she sees the print of the photo she made come up in the tray!

Jedidiah Smith;1953703637.... said:

I get that my daughter is growing up with iPhone, Internet, digital cameras, shoot - digital everything. The only thing I can think of that might make an impression artistically on her is the unique tonal range of B&W silver halide film...
Jed

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Take it easy, she only asked for darkroom prints, right?
Any b/w film will give better tonal range comparing to any digital. I have portraits done with dirt cheap Polypan F and it is still gives unlimited tonality.
I like TRIx and HP5+, if I need less grain - @200.
To me bigger challenge is to bring all of it on the darkroom print.

Another vote for FP4 Plus...


RR

HP5+ is my current favorite. It is a toss up between that and Tri-X for me. Both are very flexible and foolproof films and are more than capable of top results.

Simon R Galley said:

You do not have to worry, does not matter which camera, which film, which paper... as soon as it comes up in the darkroom... that's magic !!!! and your the magician and you have got them forever....

Simon ILFORD Photo / HARMAN technology Limited :

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I still feel that way after more than 30 years! FP4 + is great but the extra speed of HP5 + is very welcome.

Welcome to APUG

MattKrull said:

Anyone have any feedback on Retro 80S for this? I would think that would fit your wants, but I've never used it.

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The Retro 80s has that look, but I've found it very unforgiving to work with. It loses shadows very easily, and the thin base makes it tricky to load onto a developing reel.

As a relative beginner myself, I'd have to suggest Tri-X, just because it can tolerate so much abuse and still yield a good print.

Wow, thank you for each reply! So much good will from all the traditional photographers, I really appreciate the help. After we all eventually went with the digital flood a few years back, I didn't know if I'd ever shoot another roll again. Glad my daughter wants to give it a go!

I hope this next question doesn't derail this thread into a train wreck, but after reading the replies, I'm struck by this thought: would the tonal range of most B&W films be beyond the range of the paper? Is that why maybe the film doesn't really matter so much (beyond choosing a quality film), but the paper might? Would the paper developer matter much or not really? I only ever used Dektol before, and never gave that end of the process much thought.
Thanks!

Jedidiah Smith said:

I hope this next question doesn't derail this thread into a train wreck, but after reading the replies, I'm struck by this thought: would the tonal range of most B&W films be beyond the range of the paper?

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Yes, and that is why printing is an acquired skill.

Forgetting format, speed and grain, the film that's amazed me most in the last 4 or 5 years is HP5, it has an amazing tonal range. I cut my teeth with outdated ex-Government HP3 (& FP3) never liked HP4 and used HP5 push-processed until XP1 & XP2.

I'm contemplating returning to FP4 for my LF work after nearly 30 years.

Ian

Jedidiah Smith said:

I hope this next question doesn't derail this thread into a train wreck, but after reading the replies, I'm struck by this thought: would the tonal range of most B&W films be beyond the range of the paper? Is that why maybe the film doesn't really matter so much (beyond choosing a quality film), but the paper might? Would the paper developer matter much or not really? I only ever used Dektol before, and never gave that end of the process much thought.
Thanks!

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The dynamic range (range between the highest recordable highlights and the lowest recordable shadows) of film is much wider than the one of paper.

So choosing the correct paper exposure and contrast grade allows to do this "funneling" (of a wide dynamic range into a restricted dynamic range medium) in the best way possible. That's why printing is serious stuff.