Revueflex SD-1/Chinon CS-4. opinions?

hotflamincheeto · Mar 17, 2019

looking for a pretty light, compact fully mechanical SLR with a working lightmeter.
also, I'd like it to have the M42 mount and be pretty cheap.
Your thoutghs on the Chinon or the Revueflex (same camrea under different brand name)?
There's an offer for a working one with the Auto Revuenon 1.9/50 lens for $35 - worth the money?
thanks in advance!

Ian Grant · Mar 17, 2019

I've had Chinon CE-4 and CE4S cameras and they are excellent as are the standard lenses. The Chinon CM-4 and CS-4 use the same Copal electronic shutter so it's not strictly mechanical, some camera work at one speed if the batteries are flat (often 1/100).

$35 sounds reasonable but I wouldn't pay more.

Ian

hotflamincheeto · Mar 17, 2019

I've looked into manuals of CM-4 and it says ' The shutter will operate only when batteries are correctly installed and not exhausted', CS-4's manual does not mention that.
Revueflex's manual says 'If the batteries fail your camera is not in a position to measure the exposure but it is prepared to take shots'.
These two should work fine with no batteries

Paul Howell · Mar 17, 2019

I have a cm 4 it's a nice camera, good build quality, meter is accurate, not found of the led read out. The LEDs are not in the viewfinder, rather on the back of body but are visible when looking through the finder. Also takes a power winder.

cklammer · Oct 25, 2020

old thread but still:

I have 3 Revueflex SD-1: shutter works fine without battery inserted.

Why three of the same: easier to change camera/lens as a whole than changing lenses on a single body ...

These bodies are so cheap and light as to consider them als "slr lens caps" ...

Huss · Oct 25, 2020

cklammer said:
old thread but still:

I have 3 Revueflex SD-1: shutter works fine without battery inserted.

Why three of the same: easier to change camera/lens as a whole than changing lenses on a single body ...

These bodies are so cheap and light as to consider them als "slr lens caps" ...

It's easier to carry three cameras with three lenses than one camera with three lenses?

cklammer · Oct 26, 2020

In this specific case it is functionally more appropriate.

The specific case being the Revueflex SD-1 being very light at about 450 grams, coat pockets being very large and the camera being very slim.

I usually have two wide-angle and a tele lens or wide-angle, normal and tele lens on the bodies: all of them being m42 primes.

I have three coat pockets and usually carry one body in hand whilst walking with the other two being in the coat pockets.

If your coat is 4xl then your coat pockets are able to handle this up to 135mm prime lenses being maximally fitted.

With a 200m tele prime it is not really convenient anymore

RLangham · Oct 26, 2020

I don't know about these later cameras but the original Chinon CS is a very solid m42 camera. I find it quite charming. It has a mechanical metal focal-plane shutter based on the Copal Square, which gives it a high sync speed (I believe it can sync M bulbs at any speed, too), and it's a very nice weight---it doesn't feel fake but it's not by any means too heavy to carry.

I especially like that unlike on the Pentax Spotmatic and the Yashica TL Electro X, for instance, the metering switch locks down. It makes using preset lenses like the Helios-44 less clunky.

You're apt to get a good kit lens with these Chinons. Auto Chinon 50's have never disappointed me. But if you want something faster an SMC Takumad 50/1.4 looks great on a black CS.

AgX · Oct 26, 2020

When that camera was released the days of M42 cameras were actually over. There are repeated hints at its low weight, this might be the reason to just go for such late model.

Helge · Oct 26, 2020

You can and should do better than this.
It’s not the worst M42 camera ever, but any of the Fujicas, one of the earlier higher end Chinons (Memotron with 2000 speed shutter for instance) in good condition or the Zeiss Ikon or Voigtlander version of the TM are amongst the best and most reliable choices.

The lower end Chinons, eastern block cameras, and Vivitar/Cosinas, while they have good aspects and a certain charm, all have a chintzy feel to them, have generally badly aging light meters and are just not worth the money saved for a better model.

RLangham · Oct 26, 2020

Helge said:
You can and should do better than this.
It’s not the worst M42 camera ever, but any of the Fujicas, one of the earlier higher end Chinons (Memotron with 2000 speed shutter for instance) in good condition or the Zeiss Ikon or Voigtlander version of the TM are amongst the best and most reliable choices.

The lower end Chinons, eastern block cameras, and Vivitar/Cosinas, while they have good aspects and a certain charm, all have a chintzy feel to them, have generally badly aging light meters and are just not worth the money saved for a better model.

I thought this as well but then I bought my CS (for ten bucks) which is by no means a high end camera, and it seems solid enough with a fully functional light meter.

Helge · Oct 26, 2020

RLangham said:
I thought this as well but then I bought my CS (for ten bucks) which is by no means a high end camera, and it seems solid enough with a fully functional light meter.

I have two (guess where the second came from?).
You can always get lucky of course.

Paul Howell · Oct 26, 2020

I have a CM3 and 4, along with a CE7 which is K mount. I found them to be very durable, other wise somewhat odd. The CM3 meter display is LED, not in the viewfinder, just outside on the rim, sort of in the corner of my peripheral vision. The auto winder for the 3 and 4 is really loud and not that fast. The CE7 does not have dials or buttons, an odd touch LED screen on the top.

AgX · Oct 26, 2020

Helge said:
It’s not the worst M42 camera ever, but any of the Fujicas, .... are amongst the best and most reliable choices.s

After 1978 the Fujicas got their X.bayonet, and these lenses are not the most common ones.

Helge · Oct 26, 2020

AgX said:
After 1978 the Fujicas got their X.bayonet, and these lenses are not the most common ones.

The Fujicas are among the very last “worth talking about” M42 cameras.

cklammer · Oct 26, 2020

The CS-4 is, unlike the CS, based on a redesign having an aluminum frame covered in plastic using LR/SR-44 batteries.

Thus the low weigth and very compact size.

Also the meter display is somewhat basic consisting of three leds on the edge of the viewfinder for over-, correct and under-exposure.

RLangham · Oct 26, 2020

Some of the Prakticas might be decent choices too... just not the budget models.

cklammer · Oct 27, 2020

Or the branded export and/or own-brand versions of the Praktikas.

Just all of them have either no meter or are requiring the mercury battery for metering only - except for the last version MTL-5B which works with LR/SR-44 batteries.

If the OP is interested in the version with Pentax-K mount it is called the Chinon CM-4 but it is much more rare and it might be smarter to go for the Chinon CE-4 which is virtually identical except having aperture priority, shutter times from 1/1000 to 4s but requires a battery to operate the shutter. Just keep the camera in manual mode.

RLangham · Oct 27, 2020

cklammer said:
Or the branded export and/or own-brand versions of the Praktikas.

Just all of them have either no meter or are requiring the mercury battery for metering only - except for the last version MTL-5B which works with LR/SR-44 batteries.

If the OP is interested in the version with Pentax-K mount it is called the Chinon CM-4 but it is much more rare and it might be smarter to go for the Chinon CE-4 which is virtually identical except having aperture priority, shutter times from 1/1000 to 4s but requires a battery to operate the shutter. Just keep the camera in manual mode.

It is my experience that some cameras respond extremely well to the PX625A alkaline replacement battery. You just have to be able to set the film speed with an external meter because they're all different in regards to how much a full alkaline battery will offset the meter from the correct exposure. Most underexpose by a stop-and-a-half with a new battery and overexpose on a flat battery.

As for Prakticas, I don't recommend the TL3 Super, since it's a flimsy camera with a horrible sound, low top speed and one of the worst viewfinders I've ever seen on a 70's SLR, but they respond well to the alkaline battery so I imagine the nicer ones do as well.

AgX · Oct 27, 2020

RLangham said:
As for Prakticas, I don't recommend the TL3 Super, since it's a flimsy camera with a horrible sound, low top speed and one of the worst viewfinders I've ever seen on a 70's SLR

I am confused as all Praktica L-series cameras have got the same chassis and basically the same shutter. But the Super TL got an upgraded viewing screen.

RLangham · Oct 27, 2020

AgX said:
I am confused as all Praktica L-series cameras have got the same chassis and basically the same shutter. But the Super TL got an upgraded viewing screen.

Still an awful viewing screen. I have no doubt it's better than earlier Prakticas. My other Prakticas were FX series so it'd hardly be a fair comparison, but I can imagine how bad they were on the late 60's models.

The TL3 Super is absolutely bottom-of-the line. It only goes to 1/500 and while I seem to have had a rare variation with leatherette-textured plastic instead of stippled plastic, the plastic feels very cheap and looks very ugly on either version. The sounds are ugly and the CDS cell is not as fast as those on many Japanese cameras of ten years before. In a German SLR I expect much better, die Mauer be damned.

Anyways I still own it but it's sitting in my booth at the antique store with a somewhat decoated H-44 on it. I think I have 18 dollars on it and I don't doubt I'll go down further on that price before I sell it. It's visibly a very cheap camera.

AgX · Oct 27, 2020

That some Praktikas of the L-series got a 1/500sec and others a 1/1000 to me is just a marketing idea by Pentacon to stagger their portfolio, but there are Praktica experts here who would know details better.

RLangham · Oct 27, 2020

AgX said:
That some Praktikas of the L-series got a 1/500sec and others a 1/1000 to me is just a marketing idea by Pentacon to stagger their portfolio, but there are Praktica experts here who would know details better.

Doesn't it simplify the manufacture to omit the top speed? Surely even on a metal blind shutter making the smaller slit for 1/1000th takes tighter tolerances and thus makes a higher part rejection rate.

At any rate the TL1000 Super is surely the corresponding high end model, with full range of shutter speeds and self timer.

cklammer · Oct 27, 2020

My 1960ies Praktica nova has a cloth shutter, no meter and shutter times from 1s to 1/500s.

The viewfinder picture nothing to write home about but neither it is a black hole.

CZJ finished eveloped and started using thier famous metal shitter from the early 1970ies until 1990 or so.

That shutter sure makes quite some racket ... that Revue ML I own (1. Version like Praktica MTL5) is really loud.

RLangham · Oct 27, 2020

cklammer said:
CZJ finished eveloped and started using thier famous metal shitter from the early 1970ies until 1990 or so.

If you mean Copal, they finished it in the early 60's. Nikkorex F ran alongside the Nikon F with a brand name Copal Square.

Revueflex SD-1/Chinon CS-4. opinions?

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