Reverse Anamorphic lens

Maxws · Jan 28, 2022

Hi,

I'm looking for the reverse of an anamorphic lens but can't seem to find anything that exists, what I mean by reverse is instead of the lens squeezing a horizontally larger image onto the negative to be stretched out later producing a larger image onto a smaller negative I want a lens that horizontally stretches an image over a larger negative therefore when squeezed back to the correct aspect ratio later a high horizontal resolution is achieved. I want to try this as I've tried numerous subminiature cameras using 16mm film and I've always been disappointed by the heavy grain in the image due to the greater factor of enlargement compared to larger formats.

Thanks Max.

reddesert · Jan 28, 2022

An anamorphic lens has different magnification in the two axes. The "reverse" of an anamorphic lens is an anamorphic lens turned by 90 degrees. Whether such a lens will have the right focal length and coverage for your project is another question.

Maxws · Jan 28, 2022

reddesert said:
An anamorphic lens has different magnification in the two axes. The "reverse" of an anamorphic lens is an anamorphic lens turned by 90 degrees. Whether such a lens will have the right focal length and coverage for your project is another question.

So if I understand what you have said correctly if one has a 2X squeeze anamorphic lens shot on a 24x36mm negative producing a 3:1 image when stretched out, if rotated 90 degrees (ignoring the image circle coverage) the lens could produce a 3:2 image with a negative size of 24x72mm

Just to follow my comment up I don't think this makes sense that rotating the lens 90 degrees would produce this desired affect unless I just happen to be really off?

reddesert · Jan 28, 2022

You can't ignore the image circle, though. Such a lens is very unlikely to illuminate a 24x72 negative. What that lens does is take a 3:1 H:V ratio area of the image plane and squeeze it onto the 1.5:1 H:V negative. If you rotated it 90 degrees, it would take a 1.5:2 H:V area of the image plane and squeeze it vertically onto the 1.5:1 negative. (It might not illuminate the corners, because I suspect anamorphic lenses don't have perfectly circular coverage, but I don't know.)

If you then wanted to get back to a landscape format, you would turn the whole camera + lens sideways.

Maxws · Jan 28, 2022

What I want is an optical element or entire lens that projects a scene with an aspect ratio such as 3:2 or 4:3 and stretch it onto a 6:2 or 8:3 negative to allow more information to be captured onto the negative.

Maxws · Jan 28, 2022

Oh, sorry after reading what you said again and looking at it I now understand what you mean, if the lens is rotated the vertical becomes compressed which theoretically is the same as the horizontal being stretched except you would want a longer focal length. As an example If the horizontal was being stretched using a 22mm lens it would similar to a 50mm lens with the verticle compressed (those aren't exact just rough focal lengths). Using the vertical compression I'm trying to produce a negative which is 34x12mm onto 16mm film ( horizontally) which could be stretched back to the correct aspect ratio of 17:12, would I want to have the anamorphic conversion be in front of the lens or behind it?

ic-racer · Jan 29, 2022

As already posted, rotate your lens 90 degrees like you do when you put it on your projector. I think most all the conversion lenses attach to the front of both the camera and projector.

Rather than use an anemorphic system I'd think 99.9% of photographers would simply use camera and enlarger of a format large enough to project the entire uncollapsed image. A luxury not easily available in the cinematography industry.

btaylor · Jan 29, 2022

What an interesting idea! But, I don’t see the practical aspects working- though maybe there is a reason you want to stick with 16mm. The contraption to rig an anamorphic lens on a 16mm still camera seems like it would negate the small physical size advantage and simply moving to a larger format like 35mm would result in the additional image area you are after. But I am keen to know what sort of a rig you are imagining here.

samcomet · Jan 29, 2022

For what it is worth and not really to the OP but perhaps interesting none the less; a number of years ago I went to Japan to shoot some Super 8 film and had my camera mechanic build me a rig to hold an anamorphic adaptor in front of the camera's lens. The adaptor was one I scrounged in an old time 2nd hand photo shop in Sydney (sadly non existent now). The adaptor is made for un-squeezing 16mm cine work prints (or 35mm too) film, shot in wide screen, on a flatbed "Steenbeck" type of editing bench so the editors could see the image as it would be projected. What I managed to do however in Tokyo was to mount the adaptor the wrong way around by 90 degrees - in other words I shot in "tall scope" rather than "wide screen". Looked interesting when projected but obviously not really what I had in mind. Won't do that again! As Homer is fond of saying, "D'oh!" I know Max that this is not what you want but I thought it might be some food for thought.... cheers, Sam

Maxws · Feb 4, 2022

What I had envisioned an extremely thin camera, the idea of reverse anamorphic would allow the use of a shorter focal length found in still 16mm cameras and 110 cameras such as the Canon 110ED 20 which had a 21mm lens from memory, using the reverse anamorphic would allow the horizontal width of the negative to be increased without increasing its height but using a standard anamorphic design would mean I would need a around a 50mm lens and simple rotate the anamorphic adapter, the flaw with that is the size but the major flaw with the idea to start with is just the size of anamorphic lenses and adaptors.

ic-racer · Feb 5, 2022

I have dreamed of a wide angle 16mm still camera.
I had an adapter made for this 0.5x Wide Angle adapter for the 5.5mm lens on my Bolex Regular-8mm format camera. The 5.5mm lens, though the widest for this camera, is still not very wide, seeing as how the 8mm film format diagonal is 5.58mm.
I wish I could do something like this for a 16mm still camera.
Do you know of the 16mm panoramic camera called: Viscawide

Kino · Feb 5, 2022

samcomet said:
What I managed to do however in Tokyo was to mount the adaptor the wrong way around by 90 degrees - in other words I shot in "tall scope" rather than "wide screen". Looked interesting when projected but obviously not really what I had in mind. Won't do that again! As Homer is fond of saying, "D'oh!" I know Max that this is not what you want but I thought it might be some food for thought.... cheers, Sam

Unless I am misunderstanding your explanation, that IS the way anamorphics work with cinema film! You squeeze the image vertically to the negative and then unsqueeze it upon projection with another lens.
Today, you simply unsqueeze it in post production for digital projection to the appropriate aspect ratio timeline.

Kino · Feb 5, 2022

ic-racer said:
I have dreamed of a wide angle 16mm still camera.
I had an adapter made for this 0.5x Wide Angle adapter for the 5.5mm lens on my Bolex Regular-8mm format camera. The 5.5mm lens, though the widest for this camera, is still not very wide, seeing as how the 8mm film format diagonal is 5.58mm.
I wish I could do something like this for a 16mm still camera.
Do you know of the 16mm panoramic camera called: Viscawide
View attachment 297644

Have you ever experimented with a door peephole lens?

https://lifehacker.com/turn-a-door-peephole-into-a-fisheye-camera-lens-5920205

Sirius Glass · Feb 5, 2022

You need a anamorphic projection lens, found in movie theaters.

Reverse Anamorphic lens

Privacy & Transparency

Privacy & Transparency