Reversal Processing with D-11

[Tom Taylor]

If you have used Kodak D-11 for a first developer in processing B&W slides, then please answer the following:

1. The film, format, and EI used (e.g., 8x10 Ilford Delta 100 at ISO64);
2. The type of processing used (i.e., rotary, hand inversion, tray, etc);
3. The Dilution, processing temperature, and developing time in D-11 (e.g., 1:3 @ 68F for 10 minutes);
4. The results obtained.

If you processed using a different first developer, please identify it and provide the above info.

Thanks,

Thomas

 

[avortex]

FOMAPAN R100
D11 1:1 10' @24ºC
2 inversions every minute
Good results, but don't expect sky-rocketing D-max. Nice tones, anyway.

Same process with Ilford FP4+: You loose 1 stop and the contrast is crap.

The indications given in "The Darkroom Cookbook" by David Wood are D11 1:3 @20ºC. Time between 12-17'
It simply doesn't work and is a complete useless indication. Still don't know if it's a mistake or simply a joke.

 

[Tom Taylor]

10' @ 24C is ~ 12' at 20C. The Cookbook calls for 12 - 15 minutes at 20C at 1:3 and the suggestion to rotary process in a Jobo is given to maintain a 1 degree temperature control.

Thomas

 

[avortex]

But the problem is in the dilution. D11 at 1:3 is useless.

 

[Tom Taylor]

Did you try 1:2 also before 1:1? Which film did you use?

Thanks for the replies.

Thomas

 

[avortex]

Yes, 1:2 is no good.
1:1 is the maximum dilution to get acceptable results.
My first tests were made with Fomapan R100.
By the way, D11 1:1 10' @24ºC is also good for Kodak Tri-X (Super-8). Again, don't expect outstanding constrast.

 

[Jim Noel]

FOMAPAN R100
D11 1:1 10' @24ºC
2 inversions every minute
Good results, but don't expect sky-rocketing D-max. Nice tones, anyway.

Same process with Ilford FP4+: You loose 1 stop and the contrast is crap.

The indications given in "The Darkroom Cookbook" by David Wood are D11 1:3 @20ºC. Time between 12-17'
It simply doesn't work and is a complete useless indication. Still don't know if it's a mistake or simply a joke.

Typical of a lot of "information" in those books.

 

[Tom Taylor]

Yes, 1:2 is no good.
1:1 is the maximum dilution to get acceptable results.
My first tests were made with Fomapan R100.
By the way, D11 1:1 10' @24ºC is also good for Kodak Tri-X (Super-8). Again, don't expect outstanding constrast.

Thanks again. What about 1:0 - just using the stock solution without dilution? I notice that none of the other developers listed are diluted.

Thomas

 

[Tom Taylor]

Thanks for the replies.

I think that the dilution given in the Cookbook is a typo: should be 3:1 instead of 1:3. Either way I'm going to find out. I ordered SS reels from Freestyle and they are on the truck for delivery today. I plan to run a series of controlled test with 4x5 sheets which I can process one at a time to determine the best procedure. Once that is completed I'll be looking for a chemical fogging formula.

Thomas

 

[avortex]

Using D11 straight without dilution makes almost no difference. D19 is superior: for example, using it straight, 12' @20ºC, you can process Ilford HP5+ at 400ASA.
The general consensus here is that you need a pretty caustic developer, and that includes using Sodium Hydroxide in the formula. Look for the ORWO reversal formulas in APUG. In many cases, you won't even need the use of an halide solvent.
Another option is Tetenal Dokumol 1+9, which gives superb results and excellent D-Max with many films: Fomapan R100, Orwo UN54, Adox CHS-II,...

 

[avortex]

Tom, revising my notes and older slides, there's still room for improvement if using D11 undiluted. So go ahead!
My eye is a bit better trained now and I can analyze these first experiments better than 2 years ago...

 

[Tom Taylor]

Well, here's the results of my initial experiment with reversal:

The negatives were shot on expired (2/2013) 100TMax that was kept refrigerated but not frozen since purchase. I'm normally an Acros user but forced myself to use the 50 sheet boxes of Tmax and TriX (same exp date) and Acros is not supposed to reverse. The slide at the top was shot at ISO 50 and the bottom at 100. Both are on the dark side until you place them on a light table. Image wise the 50 ISO looks a little light to me and the 100 a little dark but is a nicer appearing image. I'm thinking that the films age resulted in 1/3 to 1/2 stop loss of speed which accounts for the darker appearing 100.

Both sheets were processed simultaneously using a Jobo CPA2 with a 2521 tank and 2509N reel which made it very easy to remove and reload the wet sheets for re-exposing. I used Kodak D-11 at a dilution of 3:1 for 12 minutes and the DW bleach and clearing bath given in the Darkroom Cookbook and at the given times. I tried the 1:3 dilution as given in the Cookbook but the 3:1 dilution was way better.

I'm totally unfamiliar with B&W slides ad how they are supposed to look and I seek your feedback.

Thomas

 

[mrred]

From my experiences.....

1: Use any fine grain paper developer. You need as much activity as possible to build up the silver and gain the contrast.
2: I use little to no solvent, as often as possible. Using solvent reduces contrast and wastes emulsion.
3: Use a thinner emulsion. Thicker emulsions require solvents to make them usable. Films to avoid are TMX, TMY, ACROS. Great films are Foma100, PlusX, DoubleX, TRiX, UN54, HP4, HP5...... and generally lower end films tend to rule.

Without solvents, the 1st development will take longer. Increasing the temp will reduce time. If you are using any kind of drum development, no biggie....sit back and relax. It's worth the wait. If you think you are losing speed, you just need to develop more. It's not a negative and those rules don't apply.

 

[mrred]

All the shots in my gallery are reversals....Neopan 400 and PlusX.

 

[Tom Taylor]

UPDATE

I tweaked the ISO and these two are extremely close. You'll have to excuse the crappy P&S shot but I like the ISO 83 the best. I also ran a pair using D-11 undiluted and while it is also good the 3:1 dilution looks best to me. It's very time consuming mixing the chemistry and doing the processing - more so than E-6.

Thomas

 

[avortex]

Congratulations on your first experiments!! Those slides look very promising.
Contrast is still weak. Perhaps is due to the outdated film but I can't be sure.

To avoid fog, and if you get healthy levels of contrast, try to keep the film on the clearing bath for a longer time. It clears the highlights much better than using silver halide solvent in the first developer.
And a little trick to mix the bleach once in a couple of years: Get 2 big bottles of distilled water (5 liters each, for example) and dilute double the concentration of dichromate in one, and double the concentration of acid in the other.
Every time you want to use new bleach, just mix 50% of each one at your desired quantity. The stock solutions last almost forever.

Keep on going those experiments!

 

[Tom Taylor]

Thanks avortex. Except for adding a fogging agent in the future, I'm finished with with the experimenting part and am ready to create B&W slides for projecting.
Here's the results from the last run at 3:1 and 3:0 (undiluted) at a +1/3 stop exposure compensation for the speed loss due to age (exp 2/2013):

Thomas

 

[avortex]

Looks good. But considering the expiry date (2013), almost no speed loss should have happened.
I still think the contrast must be improved greatly, but if you like the pictures that way it's OK. That's the most important thing