Retouching help please

tkamiya · Jan 18, 2011

I am trying to retuoch paper for the first time. The paper in question is Ilford MGIV RC in glossy surface and the kit I picked up is Berg Color-Tone. (made for RC paper)

Right off the bat, the problem is even Black and Gray has a shade of blue in it. Trying to retouch it is obvious that the color isn't matching. The retouched part is obviously not in the same color.

Did I simply picked up a wrong kit or am I doing something wrong???

mwdake · Jan 18, 2011

I am not familiar with the Berg kit; however, you need to use a Blue-Black spotting dye to match the paper black.

Try to find something like Marshalls or Spot-One dyes.

You need to water a little bit down and start light then keep building the color on the spot until it blends in, just stipple with very end of an almost dry brush.

It takes practice, lots of it to do it well.

RalphLambrecht · Jan 18, 2011

Taka

RC glossy is probably the hardest to spot, but what's wrong with page 78? China ink, if you can't find Spotone or Marshall's, all work perfectly.

Mainecoonmaniac · Jan 18, 2011

With BW spotting dyes, there are a few I know of. Neutral tone, cold tone and warm tone. There are other colors like olive and sepia. But I like to have the neutral, cold and warm tones. Don't spot on the print until you've tested the color. I usually use an unexposed and processed print to check on the tone. Don't brush the dye in, but poke in little dots to build up density. I like Spotone the best. I put some on an old white plate. I work with it off the plate. I never work out of the bottle because I'm a klutz. I might spill the whole bottle.

tkamiya · Jan 18, 2011

Mwdake,

Thank you. Do I really need blue-black to match Ilford MGIV black?? I applied some and the color is obviously different. "Gray" ink is closer but not an exact match either. I know there is a lot of technique to this but I think I'm working with a wrong product....

Ralph,

Nothing wrong with page 78. I just don't have that stuff anymore. (I used to when I was a kid actually...) I was trying to do this with ready-made for photo use. The supplier I use was out of Marshall's stuff. So I picked up something similar.

mwdake · Jan 18, 2011

Mwdake,

Thank you. Do I really need blue-black to match Ilford MGIV black?? I applied some and the color is obviously different. "Gray" ink is closer but not an exact match either. I know there is a lot of technique to this but I think I'm working with a wrong product....

Now I re-read your post again I see you are indicating the spotting dye has blue in it and not the black of the paper.
I have Marshall's dyes which have a neutral black dye which seems to not have much blue and I also have a bottle of Nicholson's Peerless Lamp Black and if I recall this is a true black; I haven't used it in a while.
Spot-One are hard to find as they are no longer made.

RalphLambrecht · Jan 18, 2011

Taka

Try to get Marshall's or just get a neutral ink stick and some gum arabic. Both work well.

tkamiya · Jan 18, 2011

Right - DONE. Ordered a Marshall's product. Tried it again with what I have on another junk print. It's different color. Oh well.

monodave · Jan 19, 2011

Try mixing 2 or 3 dyes together to remove the blue colour and get the match. I use a bit of sepia with blue-black Spotone, for example.

Bob-D659 · Jan 19, 2011

Spotone supplied a nice little chart with mixing directions to closely match a number of now gone papers.

Simon R Galley · Jan 19, 2011

Providing you did'nt 'knife' the print you can rewash to remove the ink.....as Ralph said spotting RC glossy is the hardest task of all ( and pretty poor end result due to differential gloss in the spotted segment, its OK if framed under glass ).

Brings back my early commercial photo photo days printing and spotting out.........brown finger nails and a black tongue!

Simon ILFORD Photo / HARMAN technology Limited :

Worker 11811 · Jan 19, 2011

monodave said:
Try mixing 2 or 3 dyes together to remove the blue colour and get the match. I use a bit of sepia with blue-black Spotone, for example.

I used that same Berg Color-Tone kit on Ilford paper just recently. I ended up mixing three colors together to get the match.

I put drops of each color around the perimeter of my saucer and took dabs of color with my brush and mixed them in the center. I think I used 3 or 4 dabs of gray, 2 or 3 of black and 1 of the warm/sepia dye.

I tested on the white border of the print until I liked the way it matched. Then I diluted down from there and spotted the print as usual.

To be honest, it doesn't have to be perfect. You know where the spot is so it sticks out like a sore thumb. People who have never seen the print would have a hard time spotting your spot unless they got right up close and looked for it. Even then, most people would have to hunt for it.

I'd say that spotting prints is more psychological than technical.

tkamiya · Jan 19, 2011

Thanks everybody.

I was able to spot an area on subject's face successfully. With enough texture on skin, little difference in color and sheen didn't make themselves apparent. Even I have difficult time finding the spot now. However, there is another white spot in very even and smooth texture that is giving me problems. Since there is really nothing else but smoothness and evenness in that immediate area, any fix I attempted actually made it worse. This "spot" is actually a result of small fiber piece landing on film (likely) and it's a thin squigly "spot".

paul ron · Jan 19, 2011

I saw someone else mention here that Spot Tone use to have a paper matching chart that gave instructions on how to mix the toners to get the character of the paper brands you are using. Once you got the black mixed, you just needed to dilute it n lay in layers to get the grays.

jmdco · Jan 19, 2011

The joy of photo retouching. I love it. Here too, we touch the photo, we rub, we examine all sides ...with your Eyes, with your fingers ... Then hide the scratches with ink and .. saliva.

Touch the picture ... it a gesture can not lose.

Oh yes, I use Pebeo 8050 Neutral Gray Retouching for neutral ton and Pebeo Grey Film HD for the warm tones of the water .. and saliva (that sticks better)

Take photos .. not to mention the happiness of the lab

RalphLambrecht · Jan 19, 2011

Worker 11811 said:
... I'd say that spotting prints is more psychological than technical.

That's my experience too. Your eyes can't actually see and resolve the individual spots, but next to the unspotted print, the spotted print looks much 'cleaner'.

tkamiya · Jan 24, 2011

SUCCESS!

I just received a Spot-All Kit and tried it on my test print, then on the final print. The end result is, the spot is virtually gone. I can find them because I know where they were but even then with some difficulty. Looking at it from a foot away, they are basically gone.

I can say dye in this kit, Neutral Black matches far better with Ilford MGIV RC than the other. I'm willing to call this completely successful result. Thanks to all who made this suggestion and helped me along the way.

Retouching help please

Privacy & Transparency

Privacy & Transparency