resurgence in film camera interest or not?

removed account4 · Aug 15, 2011

fstop said:
As long as there is a buck to be made some one will do it.

LOL

a week to two ago on ebaaa dagor77 sold a lens for $11,000.00
and i read on one website of a lens being sold for $40,000.00

it seems the market is now collectors who are buying and selling

BobD · Aug 15, 2011

We have regular monthly cameras shows here in Southern California and I have been attending them for many years. "Back in the day" the shows were huge with eager mobs attending the shows which were held in gymnasium-sized venues. As the digital revolution progressed the shows dwindled and shrank and are now a mere fraction of what they once were. But, in the last year or two they have begun to experience a definite resurgence in attendance and there is actually a brand new monthly show beginning this month (which hasn't happened in many years). In my experience prices have begun to raise again too for certain types of equipment.

Rol_Lei Nut · Aug 16, 2011

CGW said:
These are really just the same old dead horses that deserve a decent burial.

The "then why aren't camera companies making 35mm cameras anymore?" is actually one of the most common anti-film arguments used by d****** bigots.
Personal preferences and tastes and the mass market aren't the same thing.

Also, I don't have any trouble getting my film processed in Europe (at least in the 3-4 countries I spend a lot of time in).

I thoroughly enjoy using my "dead horses" and ask myself how come you're on this forum....

perkeleellinen · Aug 16, 2011

My wife works in palliative care and often tells me about a family's coping strategies. One interesting technique is to imagine a future far worse than everyone else, accept it as inevitable and then adapt for it. Supposedly, then when the future turns out to be not so horrifying, it's easier to cope with or even a positively happy ending.

I think 'resurgence' is limited to certain brands and lenses especially now that adaptors can be made to fit any brand to any body. I see quite a few people with tiny thin digi cams and massive Nikkors attached to them. That said, in the two local tourist hot spots (Oxford & Stratford) I see loads of 35mm film cameras in use.

djacobox372 · Aug 16, 2011

Since I first started buying/selling film equipment three years ago I've noticed the prices drop considerably for most cameras--a nikon fe would cost you $120 a few years ago, now you can buy one for $50. However, the most desirable cameras have held steady.

Dr.Pain-MD · Aug 16, 2011

MattKing said:
In Vancouver G. King Photo, one of the four surviving full service pro labs, went under last year. Some of their staff were hired by Customcolor, and I think Customcolor may have bought some of their equipment. Customcolor has recently moved to new, expanded premises.

In the conversations I've had with my usual lab, ABC Photo, they indicate to me that volumes have stabilized.

I'm cautiously hopeful.

Funny, I went to G.King for the first time the week it shut down. I now only use ABC Colour for my film and it's good to hear that they're not having trouble with keeping customers and such.

wblynch · Aug 16, 2011

BobD said:
We have regular monthly cameras shows here in Southern California and I have been attending them for many years. "Back in the day" the shows were huge with eager mobs attending the shows which were held in gymnasium-sized venues. As the digital revolution progressed the shows dwindled and shrank and are now a mere fraction of what they once were. But, in the last year or two they have begun to experience a definite resurgence in attendance and there is actually a brand new monthly show beginning this month (which hasn't happened in many years). In my experience prices have begun to raise again too for certain types of equipment.

Pasadena is so insane you can barely walk in there anymore

There used to be a great one in Santa Monica but it seems that was like 15 years ago.

Where is the new show?

georg16nik · Aug 16, 2011

David Lyga said:
Honestly, I have found it to be increasingly difficult to buy film cameras during the past two years, approximately synchronized to the Great Recession. Is this true? Are they now more costly? Do they, like vinyl records, refuse to die a dignified death?

A few years ago people would take ANYTHING for these cameras but now...NOT! Anyone experiencing the same: talking about the mass market type, NOT the Nikon F series, NOT the Leicas, NOT even the Bessa. (But, also, not the Holga or Diana). Types like the Minolta SRT, Pentax Spotmatic, Canon Tlb, Mamiya DTL. These were workhorses and I would take two of same any day for one Nikon F. - David Lyga

US, Canada or UK.., does not necessarily represents the global or european markets of film cameras and equipment.
Evil bay and other e-commerce junkyards have always been recycle bins with an interface.
Eventually, less than 50% of the actual film cameras and equipment, currently in exchange, gets there...
Most of the 70's and 80's photo stuff with electronics in it, have already shown its age, probably being serviced and to some extend that commands some of their prices.
The total cost of ownership for photo stuff with electronics will continue to grow as the time goes by.
The total cost of ownership for all-mechanical photo stuff will continue to be stable for the most part.

Most of the decent samples of photo equipment were sucked by asian resellers and they are reselling them for double and triple prices, partly because they had stocked up a few years ago when the US dollar wasn't so weak as now.

In the continental part of Europe there are still quite a lot of film cameras and equipment that goes for the same prices as a few years ago.
There are regional meetings, events, internet forums with second hand sections in them..
There is plenty of fresh B&W film, paper. The prices are better than ever - I am not talking about Kodak, Ilford and Fuji - they have always demanded a kidney and a liver for a single roll of film.
If You fall for color, there are at least a dozen of 1 hour service color photo labs in almost every large EU city.
Developing Black-and-White films and printing optically have always been a wizardry and a real art asking for consistent skills and substantial knowledge.

Single use color film cameras are still popular for the average folks, when we talk birthday parties, weddings, holidays etc etc..
For most of them, the end product is small paper prints, so single use film cameras still gives them better results than the average computer dependent infants.

CGW · Aug 16, 2011

The "then why aren't camera companies making 35mm cameras anymore?" is actually one of the most common anti-film arguments used by d****** bigots.
Personal preferences and tastes and the mass market aren't the same thing.

Also, I don't have any trouble getting my film processed in Europe (at least in the 3-4 countries I spend a lot of time in).

I thoroughly enjoy using my "dead horses" and ask myself how come you're on this forum....

Think you missed the points, Rol_lei Nut. Dead horses=pointless arguments, e.g., film cameras are now scarce and valuable;and "increases" in film sales indicate a remarkable comeback.

If you've a taste for magical thinking, then bon appetit. But when was belief the earth is flat necessary to post here? Just askin'

thegman · Aug 16, 2011

From talking to a couple of Leica dealers, they seem to have no trouble selling film Leicas. In fact one said "We don't have any trouble selling them, we have trouble getting them.". So it seems demand for Leica film cameras, at least in a couple of dealers I know is higher than the number of people selling them.

Less prestigious brands I think hang around the shelves more, when I go into some dealers, they always seem to have the same old cameras in the window, stuff like Nikon F4 etc. which are just too big for anyone who is not serious about shooting. Rolleiflexes, Hasselblads, Leicas, Bessas etc. seem to sell fast though.

Grainy · Aug 16, 2011

I feel there is a small resurgence among young people, if it's because of hipsters wanna live the 1970s life or if it's people who want to learn the art of film photography I don't know. There is a mix of young people buying film. Some hipsters with toy or wide angel toy camera and some people with old, "normal" cameras. They do buy film, and that's good for the companies making film. And disposable cameraes are still a very, very important source of keeping the volume of developing up.

But among the typical normal consumer there is no resurgence what so ever. They use digital for their family snapshots and will never go back to film because of price and convenience.

Companies making film and supplies will have to adjust staff and production lines to supplying low volume quality products for a "small" group of photographers, not cheap sh#! for the masses.

benjiboy · Aug 16, 2011

All it proves is that some people know the price of everything and the value of nothing.

Mainecoonmaniac · Aug 16, 2011

Fuji film thinks there's renewed interest in film. They released a new medium format folder last year.

http://photo-utopia.blogspot.com/2010/09/new-fujifilm-medium-format-camera.html

georg16nik · Aug 16, 2011

thegman said:
From talking to a couple of Leica dealers, they seem to have no trouble selling film Leicas. In fact one said "We don't have any trouble selling them, we have trouble getting them.". So it seems demand for Leica film cameras, at least in a couple of dealers I know is higher than the number of people selling them.

..Its been like that for quite a while. I personally know people waited a few months for their Leicas and they dont live in Tanzania but in Germany and one of them even lives in Wetzlar... as weird as its sounds

Klainmeister · Aug 16, 2011

I'm 23 and shoot film. My two best friends shoot film, my ex shoots film, my old college party buds shoot film even. And none of this is Holga stuff. They all learned from when we still had darkroom courses in high school and never saw digital as acceptable unless for drunken late night pics. That list includes two TLR users, 4x5 shooter, RZ, and two serious 35mm. We're out there, but with both high schools and college shutting down darkroom courses, where will people get their first whiff of fixer? I know my senior year at OSU they shut down the darkroom...every class was booked solid, but since the professor retired, they deemed it unworthy to hire someone to fill the gap.

My mentor told me 3 years ago that MF and LF will increase in price once again because so many serious amateurs sold their gear and went the DSLR route, only to be disappointed that they have more, but not better, photographs and would revert. I think he was right. I bought a Mamiya Press system for $150 in 2008 only to sell it for $450 two years later.

eclarke · Aug 16, 2011

Mainecoonmaniac said:
Fuji film thinks there's renewed interest in film. They released a new medium format folder last year.

http://photo-utopia.blogspot.com/2010/09/new-fujifilm-medium-format-camera.html

I bought one and am very happy to have it, two cameras in one, 6x6 and 6x7

thegman · Aug 16, 2011

eclarke said:
I bought one and am very happy to have it, two cameras in one, 6x6 and 6x7

My brother had one, outstanding camera, if I did not have my Hasselblad, I'd have a GF670 myself.

Mainecoonmaniac · Aug 16, 2011

I think I'm getting GAS

thegman said:
My brother had one, outstanding camera, if I did not have my Hasselblad, I'd have a GF670 myself.

I'm tooting with jealousy

BrianL · Aug 16, 2011

I have found the pricing for Bronica has seemed to bottom out and is starting to move upwards.

Some cameras like Leica, Zeiss, Contax, etc. are affected by yhe collectors's market and hence demand remains high. But it depends on the model as to how much affected. For instance, my Leica CL has been at an almost constant price since the '80s and hence gone down in value because of inflation while the M5 that back then could be bought for even less now is hitting prices of M6 bodies though it was at the time diced by Leica lovers.

I do suspect as time progresses the fully mechanical cameras will have the advantage of price increases faster then electronic cameras as the electronics become harder to impossible to fix.

CGW · Aug 16, 2011

BrianL said:
I have found the pricing for Bronica has seemed to bottom out and is starting to move upwards.

Some cameras like Leica, Zeiss, Contax, etc. are affected by yhe collectors's market and hence demand remains high. But it depends on the model as to how much affected. For instance, my Leica CL has been at an almost constant price since the '80s and hence gone down in value because of inflation while the M5 that back then could be bought for even less now is hitting prices of M6 bodies though it was at the time diced by Leica lovers.

I do suspect as time progresses the fully mechanical cameras will have the advantage of price increases faster then electronic cameras as the electronics become harder to impossible to fix.

The problem with any film camera--electronic or mechanical--will be the availability of competent repair talent and parts. Aside from film choices narrowing with time, just who will be around to fix our relics is worth thinking about.

BobD · Aug 16, 2011

wblynch said:
Pasadena is so insane you can barely walk in there anymore

There used to be a great one in Santa Monica but it seems that was like 15 years ago.

Where is the new show?

The new show is in Buena Park, starting Aug 28th:
http://www.bargaincamerashows.com/

wblynch · Aug 17, 2011

BobD said:
The new show is in Buena Park, starting Aug 28th:
http://www.bargaincamerashows.com/

great news! thanks

David Lyga · Aug 17, 2011

Did not know that I was capable of causing such a verbal fury.

There really DOES seem to be a NET gain in interest, albeit meager. Yes, the days of $15 Spotmatics are over and I think that bottom has been reached. By the way, BradS, what do you have for sale that you cannot get rid of? I do not buy larger than 35mm and larger is what you might be trying to get rid of. But I buy the SRTs and Spotmatics and XG series and Canon AE-1s, etc, and have managed to buy them at close to $20 each in the Philadelphia region (WITH normal lens, no less!) In fact in the past two days I bought a Minolta X-570 with 1.7/50mm for $20 and a Minolta XG-1 with 2/45mm for $22. I am not complaining but merely stating that I am not permitted to be as spoiled as I was three years ago. My temper tantrum will eventually subside.

Thank you all for some profound, revealing insight here. Is there as way to attenuate this addiction? (see ETHICS forum) - David Lyga

Argenticien · Aug 17, 2011

In my location in North Carolina, we are sadly down to 1 pro lab (as far as I know) for a metropolitan area of 1.75 million people. That said, Biggs is doing seemingly well. Last time I took a roll of 120 E-6 in there, I was making small talk that they must not see those very often; the man said that (on the contrary) they are seeing increasing traffic in processing, even E-6. (There may be a small "last man standing" effect still at work there, but their last pro-shop competitor, Camera World NC, died 2.5 years ago so it's not like they're still in the midst of a customer stampede coming over from that store.)
--Dave

MattKing said:
In Vancouver G. King Photo, one of the four surviving full service pro labs, went under last year. Some of their staff were hired by Customcolor, and I think Customcolor may have bought some of their equipment. Customcolor has recently moved to new, expanded premises.

In the conversations I've had with my usual lab, ABC Photo, they indicate to me that volumes have stabilized.

I'm cautiously hopeful.

parkpy · Aug 17, 2011

Denver Pro Photo in Colorado says there is a very real resurgence in their film sales. I love their selection, because there is actual VARIETY. Most grocery stores, and camera stores only stock Kodak Gold, Fujifilm Superia, and black and white is limited to BW400CN.

The Costcos around here, as well as the Targets, are in the process of shutting down their film developing services.

resurgence in film camera interest or not?

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