Results of film thru airport security test

Tom Stanworth · Jan 31, 2007

Ryan McIntosh said:
I have had 100asa 8x10 sheet film completely ruined a few times from the airport Xrays. The last time was when I passed through the LAX airport only 2 times. The film had visible scanning bars (about 5) acrost the whole length of the film in the dirrection that the film when into the scanner.

After this happened and ruined my whole trips film, I've never had them scan it again.

Thru carry on? I wonder whether the machine was a normal machine in this case. I cannot see why sheet film would be affected worse than any other.

As for previous post about frames on interior fogged, I am sure that 'focus of Xrays on the interior of the camera' would not be an issue. There is no DOF issue with X Ray machines that I know of. Everything seems to be in sharp focus or at least they are with the ones we use here.

TheFlyingCamera · Jan 31, 2007

Quite honestly, I don't know that you CAN focus X-rays, at least not with the machines they use to scan luggage. X-rays are not like lasers. They're radiant energy. There may have been something about the takeup spool that caused it to reflect the energy back into the film instead of passing it through. Kinda like putting a piece of metal in a microwave oven.

Cheryl Jacobs · Jan 31, 2007

Personally, I hand check everything when travelling in the US, just in case. I use a lot of Tri-X 320, but you never know which roll may get pushed to 3200 or 6400. It takes the fun out of shooting when you're constantly wondering if the film you're shooting is any good.

- CJ

Sirius Glass · Jan 31, 2007

Cheryl Jacobs said:
Personally, I hand check everything when travelling in the US, just in case. I use a lot of Tri-X 320, but you never know which roll may get pushed to 3200 or 6400. It takes the fun out of shooting when you're constantly wondering if the film you're shooting is any good.

- CJ

I am with Cheryl on this one. I use UC 400 almost exclusively and I have everything hand checked. It is a real PITA* and makes me think about going to the dreaded D_____! even though I have only had a problem with getting a hand inspection once.

The only time I had a problem with getting things hand checked: On my return from a wedding in Hawaii [NC400 and VC400 for the wedding and UC400 for the sunrise at Haleakala] the TCA jerk [the technical term, I believe] insisted on X-raying everything. After talking with him for five minutes, I saw logic was not working with him. I pulled out my old Kodak business card and demanded to see the watch supervisor. By the time the supervisor got there I was in full eruption mode. The supervisor told the jerk that I was right. He then apologized to me and had me by-pass the inspection.

I just added MF cameras back into my equipment. Are they going to open every foil wrapper of my 120 film?

Steve

*PITA => Pain In The Ass

Cheryl Jacobs · Jan 31, 2007

Steve, yes, they'll open every foil wrapper of 120 film.

I make things really easy for the inspectors. Before I leave for the airport, I remove all my film from boxes, wrappers, and cannisters and put everything in a single plastic bag (large format film excepted -- I mail that to my destination.) That way they can see everything and it's a lot less work for them. The result is that I've never had anyone give me a hard time about doing a hand-check.

When they do occasionally ask me if any of the film is high-speed, I tell them that it is ALL high speed because it may be push-processed.

- CJ

Sirius Glass · Jan 31, 2007

Cheryl Jacobs said:
Steve, yes, they'll open every foil wrapper of 120 film.

I make things really easy for the inspectors. Before I leave for the airport, I remove all my film from boxes, wrappers, and cannisters and put everything in a single plastic bag (large format film excepted -- I mail that to my destination.) That way they can see everything and it's a lot less work for them. The result is that I've never had anyone give me a hard time about doing a hand-check.

When they do occasionally ask me if any of the film is high-speed, I tell them that it is ALL high speed because it may be push-processed.

- CJ

Cheryl,

Ok, I will mail my film ahead, when I can. Good suggestion.

Steve

copake_ham · Jan 31, 2007

Cheryl Jacobs said:
Steve, yes, they'll open every foil wrapper of 120 film.

I make things really easy for the inspectors. Before I leave for the airport, I remove all my film from boxes, wrappers, and cannisters and put everything in a single plastic bag (large format film excepted -- I mail that to my destination.) That way they can see everything and it's a lot less work for them. The result is that I've never had anyone give me a hard time about doing a hand-check.

When they do occasionally ask me if any of the film is high-speed, I tell them that it is ALL high speed because it may be push-processed.

- CJ

Like Stever I am new to MF. I haven't traveled with 120 film (have been using the "mail ahead" option instead) but appreciate the advice regarding TSA removing the foil. Maybe I'll carry a roll out with me to Tucson next month as a "test".

Last year I traveled out to Tucson with about 40 rolls of assorted 35mm. I removed each roll from its plastic case and put them in a clear plastic bag for hand inspection.

No problems at all.

And then I had something to do to kill time waiting to board by re-inserting each roll into its plastic case.

Sirius Glass · Jan 31, 2007

Once the hermetic seal is broken

copake_ham said:
And then I had something to do to kill time waiting to board by re-inserting each roll into its plastic case.

Oh, they will put each roll back in its plastic case but before they opened the plastic case the film was in a hermitically sealed atmosphere. Once they open the case the surrounding gases disperse and the film is no longer in the manufacture's environment. Now the film is being exposed to smog and humidity. Who know what the local smog will do to the emulsion - say if you are near a factory that puts acid fumes in the air! If you later refrigerate the film the trapped humidity can condense on the film emulsion or on the film back. If the moisture does not evaporate it can affect the imaging - even if it does not leave water stains behind.

Stever

jstraw · Jan 31, 2007

Stever said:
Oh, they will put each roll back in its plastic case but before they opened the plastic case the film was in a hermitically sealed atmosphere. Once they open the case the surrounding gases disperse and the film is no longer in the manufacture's environment. Now the film is being exposed to smog and humidity. Who know what the local smog will do to the emulsion - say if you are near a factory that puts acid fumes in the air! If you later refrigerate the film the trapped humidity can condense on the film emulsion or on the film back. If the moisture does not evaporate it can affect the imaging - even if it does not leave water stains behind.

Stever

:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Eric Rose · Jan 31, 2007

I guess I'm lucky but I have never had any hassle with film going thru security. I travel all over the world on a regular basis. I put my film in my carry on and I don't even mention it. Usually traveling with 35mm, MF and 4x5 so if there was anything to spook them I would imagine I give them plenty of opportunity. My cameras are also in my carry on so it's not like they don't know I must have film too.

Having said that, I avoid going thru the States whenever possible. As do most of my customers.

Cheryl Jacobs · Jan 31, 2007

Stever said:
Oh, they will put each roll back in its plastic case but before they opened the plastic case the film was in a hermitically sealed atmosphere. Once they open the case the surrounding gases disperse and the film is no longer in the manufacture's environment. Now the film is being exposed to smog and humidity. Who know what the local smog will do to the emulsion - say if you are near a factory that puts acid fumes in the air! If you later refrigerate the film the trapped humidity can condense on the film emulsion or on the film back. If the moisture does not evaporate it can affect the imaging - even if it does not leave water stains behind.

Stever

I've never had problems with this. I'll confess that I never bother with putting film back into the plastic canisters, and I've never had visible issues as a result. Besides, generally when I travel with film, I intend to shoot it before I come home to my refrigerator.

- CJ

copake_ham · Jan 31, 2007

Stever said:
Oh, they will put each roll back in its plastic case but before they opened the plastic case the film was in a hermitically sealed atmosphere. Once they open the case the surrounding gases disperse and the film is no longer in the manufacture's environment. Now the film is being exposed to smog and humidity. Who know what the local smog will do to the emulsion - say if you are near a factory that puts acid fumes in the air! If you later refrigerate the film the trapped humidity can condense on the film emulsion or on the film back. If the moisture does not evaporate it can affect the imaging - even if it does not leave water stains behind.

Stever

I'm really doubtful that the final production procedure before they put the little cap on top is to blow a puff of special gases into the case. And since the caps are "snap ons" they are not hermetically sealed to begin with.

Also, please note that I took the film cannisters out of the cases and immediately placed them in a zip lock plastic bag. So any exposure to smog and humidity was inconsequential. The TSA guy doesn't open the bag - he just inspects through it.

And since I then immediately placed each cannister back in the plastic cases again I think any smog or humidity was immaterial to non-existent.

I think we tend to treat film much more delicately than it requires. Pre-digital they used the stuff in war zones etc.

Cheryl Jacobs · Jan 31, 2007

Actually, the TSA guys ARE supposed to open the zip-loc bag and individually inspect the film. Most use a swab sort of thing to test them. Some TSA guys are certainly more dedicated than others, though, so nothing surprises me anymore.

- CJ

Sirius Glass · Jan 31, 2007

film out-gases

copake_ham said:
I'm really doubtful that the final production procedure before they put the little cap on top is to blow a puff of special gases into the case. And since the caps are "snap ons" they are not hermetically sealed to begin with.

I did not say that they inject gases. Film, like other manufactured goods, out-gas. The plastic containers for 35mm and the foil packages for 120 film retain the out-gases until they are opened.

[This is much like being in a car with the windows closed when one has had beer and chill the night before.] sigh

Steve

naturephoto1 · Jan 31, 2007

Just as a precaution, any film that I do not ship to meet me at the final destination I request to have hand searched.

Rich

eddym · Jan 31, 2007

Tom Stanworth said:
As for previous post about frames on interior fogged, I am sure that 'focus of Xrays on the interior of the camera' would not be an issue. There is no DOF issue with X Ray machines that I know of. Everything seems to be in sharp focus or at least they are with the ones we use here.

You may well be right; but what other possible explanation could you suggest?

raucousimages · Jan 31, 2007

I have not yet had a problem with X-ray but in the early 1980's When I was in the Marine Corps we were training in a restricted area just outside of the Nevada test range. When we left they took the doseometers from us and after looking at them they said "you'll probably be OK". We laughed it off as them joking with us until we got home and some of us had fogged film in our cameras. Remember the Kodak Disc?

copake_ham · Jan 31, 2007

Cheryl Jacobs said:
Actually, the TSA guys ARE supposed to open the zip-loc bag and individually inspect the film. Most use a swab sort of thing to test them. Some TSA guys are certainly more dedicated than others, though, so nothing surprises me anymore.

- CJ

Yes, but if you are at the front of a long line at LGA during the "morning rush" it is unlikely the TSA person is going to open the zippy and swab 40 rolls. There is strength in numbers!

Leonard Peterson · Jan 31, 2007

Originally Posted by Stever
Oh, they will put each roll back in its plastic case but before they opened the plastic case the film was in a hermitically sealed atmosphere. Once they open the case the surrounding gases disperse and the film is no longer in the manufacture's environment. Now the film is being exposed to smog and humidity. Who know what the local smog will do to the emulsion - say if you are near a factory that puts acid fumes in the air!
Stever

Good grief.

dxphoto · Feb 12, 2007

Tri-x, pushed to 1600, x-rayed at different locations in NYC, ie museums, 2-3 times, before and after shooting them, with no sign of problems.

Lucky 100, luggage bagged from China to US, before shooting, no problems.

Roger Hicks · Feb 12, 2007

Leonard Peterson said:
Originally Posted by Stever
Oh, they will put each roll back in its plastic case but before they opened the plastic case the film was in a hermitically sealed atmosphere. Once they open the case the surrounding gases disperse and the film is no longer in the manufacture's environment. Now the film is being exposed to smog and humidity. Who know what the local smog will do to the emulsion - say if you are near a factory that puts acid fumes in the air!
Stever

Good grief.

Will the amount of pollutants that can be trapped in with the film in a 35mm canister do any harm? I'd be surprised if they could -- but I am open to enlightenment from anyone who knows more than I. Note: knows, not guesses.

Cheers,

R.

Results of film thru airport security test

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