Restoring my Kodak Mast View 8x10

Mahler_one · Oct 17, 2012

HI Stig: The cork is available at many art supply stores. The material comes in thin sheets with self adhesive on one side, and the cork on the other. Simply cut the length of cork sheeting that you need, trim to the correct width, and affix to the metal piece-one piece of cork "sheeting" on each side. Works quite well.

Elliot

Mahler_one · Nov 18, 2012

I thought that users of the KMV will benefit from the following.

I had travelled to Jackson, Mississippi and was photographing at an interesting Confederate burial ground and a near-by abandoned tenant farmer’s home when I noted that the top slider which holds the lens board in place was hanging down. As many of you know, the original screws holding the top slider were rather flimsy. Moreover, such original screws can, of course, no longer be located. I had fashioned a make shift solution when I purchased the camera. However, if one uses the new KMV lens boards from Michael Smith one will find that the new boards are considerably “stronger” and “thicker” than the original Kodak boards. Such boards (although an improvement), put added stress on the mounting screws holding the top slider. Indeed, one might find it a bit difficult at first to work the new lens boards under the bottom lip and slide the top slider over the top of the board. Needless to say, it was impossible to find the small screw amongst the weeds. Moreover, even if the screw was found, I did not have a small hex wrench to reattach the screw onto the camera. Also, I had no tape to hold the board in place at the top right side.

Obviously I did the best that I could; one does not travel 700 miles and pack up without trying to photograph. Hopefully the new lens board will have been thick enough so that light will not have found a path behind the board. We shall see.

The solution? After appropriate cursing and head shaking, my friend and I went to the local Ace Hardware store. I had done the same thing here in Florida when trying to solve the “problem” , and of course found that the store had no appropriate screws. Needless to say, the store in Jackson-although having thousands of screws of both metric and machine measurements- did not have any screw that worked. We went to a “fastener store” and of course they did not have anything to replace the “original screws”. My friend who is a retired Professional Engineer and is very familiar with all manner of nuts, bolts, screws, etc. and the very helpful young man at the counter thought that “retapping” the original hole and using a modern machine screw would be the best solution. The bellows on my camera is mounted such that top of the bellows is BELOW the hole where the screws holding the slider is located. Hence, there was no danger of ruining the top of the bellows if the replacement screw was too long. So, the two of them carefully “retapped” the original hole ( start with a tapered tap and then use the straight tap ) using a small “tap wrench”. They then screwed in a standard 4-40 ¼ inch machine screw and adjusted the tightness so that the slider was easily moved yet very secure. The length of the new screw is perfect; there is no protrusion of the screw behind the board, and no risk of damaging the bellows or the camera. Of course, we could have clipped the back end of the screw had such been needed.

Done! The new screw is a standard size, easily found at any hardware store and thus simple to replace. The new screw is much “stronger” and the top end of the thicker lens board is held more securely in place. The downside is, of course, that the camera is no longer “completely authentic”. However, I think you might agree that the advantages of not having to worry about having a situation similar to mine is worth having two “non authentic” screws.

Elliot

RalphLambrecht · Nov 24, 2012

Mahler_one said:
My friend who is a retired Professional Engineer and is very familiar with all manner of nuts

just like all of us professional engineers.

Mahler_one · Nov 24, 2012

Ah Ralph...I was waiting for your response!

Give us a call when you are back home....

Elliot

RobertoMiglioli · Nov 24, 2012

This is so cool! Bring us some pictures of the process.

Mahler_one · Nov 24, 2012

The negatives are almost all developed, and appear to be without fog and quite sharp. So, apparently the heft and the thickness of the KMV lens boards as supplied by MAS were enough to keep the board in place without shaking when the shutter was released ( of course, a cable release was used ). The prints will supply more information.

Mahler_one said:
I thought that users of the KMV will benefit from the following.

I had travelled to Jackson, Mississippi and was photographing at an interesting Confederate burial ground and a near-by abandoned tenant farmers home when I noted that the top slider which holds the lens board in place was hanging down. As many of you know, the original screws holding the top slider were rather flimsy. Moreover, such original screws can, of course, no longer be located. I had fashioned a make shift solution when I purchased the camera. However, if one uses the new KMV lens boards from Michael Smith one will find that the new boards are considerably stronger and thicker than the original Kodak boards. Such boards (although an improvement), put added stress on the mounting screws holding the top slider. Indeed, one might find it a bit difficult at first to work the new lens boards under the bottom lip and slide the top slider over the top of the board. Needless to say, it was impossible to find the small screw amongst the weeds. Moreover, even if the screw was found, I did not have a small hex wrench to reattach the screw onto the camera. Also, I had no tape to hold the board in place at the top right side.

Obviously I did the best that I could; one does not travel 700 miles and pack up without trying to photograph. Hopefully the new lens board will have been thick enough so that light will not have found a path behind the board. We shall see.

The solution? After appropriate cursing and head shaking, my friend and I went to the local Ace Hardware store. I had done the same thing here in Florida when trying to solve the problem , and of course found that the store had no appropriate screws. Needless to say, the store in Jackson-although having thousands of screws of both metric and machine measurements- did not have any screw that worked. We went to a fastener store and of course they did not have anything to replace the original screws. My friend who is a retired Professional Engineer and is very familiar with all manner of nuts, bolts, screws, etc. and the very helpful young man at the counter thought that retapping the original hole and using a modern machine screw would be the best solution. The bellows on my camera is mounted such that top of the bellows is BELOW the hole where the screws holding the slider is located. Hence, there was no danger of ruining the top of the bellows if the replacement screw was too long. So, the two of them carefully retapped the original hole ( start with a tapered tap and then use the straight tap ) using a small tap wrench. They then screwed in a standard 4-40 ¼ inch machine screw and adjusted the tightness so that the slider was easily moved yet very secure. The length of the new screw is perfect; there is no protrusion of the screw behind the board, and no risk of damaging the bellows or the camera. Of course, we could have clipped the back end of the screw had such been needed.

Done! The new screw is a standard size, easily found at any hardware store and thus simple to replace. The new screw is much stronger and the top end of the thicker lens board is held more securely in place. The downside is, of course, that the camera is no longer completely authentic. However, I think you might agree that the advantages of not having to worry about having a situation similar to mine is worth having two non authentic screws.

Elliot

StigHagen · Jan 8, 2013

Have anybody tried to use lubricant for the metal focusing parts of the KMV? Would it make it smoother?

Mahler_one · Jan 8, 2013

Hi again Stig:

I used some silicon spray lubricant on the metal parts. Movement was indeed smoother without any "chugging". Incidentally, my KMV had some need of lubricant where some of the plastic knobs ( front swing and shift ) were. The silicon worked quite well there also.

Hopefully Michael will chime in.

StigHagen · Jan 8, 2013

Mahler_one said:
Hi again Stig:

I used some silicon spray lubricant on the metal parts. Movement was indeed smoother without any "chugging". Incidentally, my KMV had some need of lubricant where some of the plastic knobs ( front swing and shift ) were. The silicon worked quite well there also.

Hopefully Michael will chime in.

Thank you. Also I wonder, what thickness is recommended for the cork on the front standard? The thinnest I can find is 0.8mm, but maybe it is too thin as it can easily break? If any has a link, I would appreciate

Mahler_one · Jan 8, 2013

I'll try to find the rest of the cork sheeting that I used Stig. The cork is on a sheet with a self adhesive back. I simply cut the cork sheet to the length and width needed, and affixed the glued part to the side of the "standard". Have you any art supply stores where you are?

If you cannot find what you need send me a PM with your address. I'll try to get to the store over the next few days and get a sheet off to you.

StigHagen · Jan 9, 2013

Mahler_one said:
I'll try to find the rest of the cork sheeting that I used Stig. The cork is on a sheet with a self adhesive back. I simply cut the cork sheet to the length and width needed, and affixed the glued part to the side of the "standard". Have you any art supply stores where you are?

If you cannot find what you need send me a PM with your address. I'll try to get to the store over the next few days and get a sheet off to you.

Thank you so much for your friendly offer I did check with the local art store but could not find it. I found a very thin .08mm sheet online for 14$. Maybe it will do...

http://www.corkstore.com/Products/Cork-Sheets-CR117/CR117-Cork-Sheet-PSA-08mm

noparking · Mar 11, 2013

KMV standards rock back-and-forth when locked down

I just acquired a KMV. The standards on this camera have 1/8" of radial travel each. This play seems to originate at the points were the tilt mechanism connect to bakelite brackets at the bed of the camera. I believe the root cause of this loosness is that the shafts that run through these bakelite brackets have enlarged their holes over time. I was thinking a small brass sleeve could be used to tighten up the movement at these pivot points. Any thoughts and/or suggestions on fixing this bothersome problem would be appreciated.

- Jeff

Mahler_one · Mar 12, 2013

I have forwarded your question to Michael Smith who is probably the most astute when issues concerning the KMV are concerned.

Question: How did you acquire your camera, i.e., from Ebay? If so, have you any recourse from the seller?

Elliot

noparking · Mar 12, 2013

Yes I did purchase this on eBay, and it included a 14 day return option. Are you thinking the problem I have described is is not going to be worth the hassle of trying to fix?

I wish Kodak had not used bakelite for these bracket components; the rest of the components are of robust metal.

Mahler_one said:
I have forwarded your question to Michael Smith who is probably the most astute when issues concerning the KMV are concerned.

Question: How did you acquire your camera, i.e., from Ebay? If so, have you any recourse from the seller?

Elliot

Mahler_one · Mar 12, 2013

Let's see what Michael says. However, I must tell you that there have been a few KMV offered for sale on Ebay recently. The sellers seemed to be rather unfamiliar with the camera, or disingenuous in that they seemed to be reluctant to report about the real condition of the camera. In some cases the sellers stated that lens boards were easily available for $12-which tells you something about the sellers. In other instances the seller failed to extend the bellows to look for light leaks. In another sale the seller noted that small pin holes in the original bellows were not an issue and could be addressed by simply throwing the dark cloth over the bellows before removing the dark slide. Hence I wonder if you were notified in the listing about the issue that you bring to our attention. I suspect not-either intentionally or from ignorance-or both.

It's funny how many sellers state that their KMV for sale is "mint with the original bellows"....probably without fully understanding how the camera really "works". It would be hard to imagine the seller of your camera NOT seeing the same issue that you have identified.

If Michael states that the issue is more difficult to address then I would consider returning the camera. At least consider informing the seller about the issue immediately so that the seller cannot claim that you failed to tell him/her of any issues. I would hope that the issue can be dealt with for the KMV is a wonderful camera to use in the field. Hardly pretty to look at, but quick and easy to set up and take down, and the camaera has more then enough bellows draw and movements. As others have stated, original bellows will almost certainly ahve to be replaced and there are other small issues to deal with. Hopefully your issue will be readily solved....indeed, your plan seems quite reasonable. However, don't attempt anything until you have notified the seller!!
Please keep us informed.

Mahler_one · Mar 12, 2013

I have also forwarded your question about the radial travel to some other members of APUG who are engineers and thus might have some further advice.

Elliot

noparking · Mar 14, 2013

Elliot,

Thank you for your help. I have notified the seller and he has responded. I don't detect any problem with returning the camera. This is my first venture into the 8x10 format. Standing by...

- Jeff

Mahler_one said:
I have also forwarded your question about the radial travel to some other members of APUG who are engineers and thus might have some further advice.

Elliot

Mahler_one · Mar 14, 2013

It is reassuring to know that the seller appears to be willing honor the return guarantee. Hopefully we will still hear from Michael or one of the others who might be able to help.

Is there a machine shop near you? If so it might make some sense to show the camera to the machinists, and demonstrate the issue you identified to someone at the shop. They might be able to offer a relatively quick and effective solution that would not be too costly. Again, your solution might also work. However, before doing anything to the camera, take some photos of the camera as you receive it and be assured that the seller agrees with any modifications that you are planning to complete.

Happy to be of any small help. I hope that the camera can be returned to good order, and that you can use your KMV for many years to come.

Incidentally, there are very few sources from which one can purchase lens boards for the KMV. Michael and Paula provide what are probably the best KMV lens boards currently available. You can contact them directly.

Don't give up quite yet...and of course, there are alternatives to the KMV.....:}

Mahler_one · Mar 15, 2013

I believe Michael will be contacting you privately. However, is photo accessed via the link where the problem is?

<The problem stems from the brass track system the rear standard rides in. There has been enough wear to allow some wiggle that I would prefer were not there. Here is a photo showing the pieces in question. This is the right side, the left side is simply a mirror image.

http://flic.kr/p/dRg9f8>

These two parts either need to be replaced NOS, recreated altogether, or new brass needs to be brazed on to the existing parts and then milled back to shape.

noparking · Mar 22, 2013

Mahler_one said:
I believe Michael will be contacting you privately. However, is photo accessed via the link where the problem is?

<The problem stems from the brass track system the rear standard rides in. There has been enough wear to allow some wiggle that I would prefer were not there. Here is a photo showing the pieces in question. This is the right side, the left side is simply a mirror image.

http://flic.kr/p/dRg9f8>

These two parts either need to be replaced NOS, recreated altogether, or new brass needs to be brazed on to the existing parts and then milled back to shape.

Michael did contact me - thank you for that.

Upon re-evaluation I now have noticed that most of the front standard's play is originating from the sliding of the inner bed extension inside the outer bed extension.

As for the rear standard, some of its play does originate from the tracking system it rides in; and some from the area that it pivots on.

Can you describe what function the control near the end of the bed performs - I cannot detect any change when this control is tightened or loosened. I'm still able to pull the bed out if I manually release the spring metal clip, no matter the setting of this control.

Mahler_one · Mar 22, 2013

OK.....I think I understand what you are saying. With reference to the front movements: Note that the "inner tracks" will slide within the "outer tracks" when the clip is depressed... the knob that you allude to in the photograph will not affect that movement....take a look at the following review:

http://www.largeformatphotography.info/kodak/masterview.html

Note the reference to a "trombone" type of situation.

Are you saying that the front knurled knob has no "purchase" when you tighten it?

By the way, judging from photos, you might also benefit from installing some thin cork sheeting on the metal edges of the piece that holds the lens boards and which is moved to supply axis tilt. Although the cork is not absolutely necessary, many here have installed such cork and I believe the axis tilt mechanism does work much better when the cork provides the added friction

Perhaps others on the thread will chime in as well?

Ari · Mar 22, 2013

Noparking, you might find this thread helpful:
http://www.largeformatphotography.i...Kodak-Master-View-Repairs&p=987908#post987908

noparking · Mar 23, 2013

Mahler_one said:
OK.....I think I understand what you are saying. With reference to the front movements: Note that the "inner tracks" will slide within the "outer tracks" when the clip is depressed... the knob that you allude to in the photograph will not affect that movement....take a look at the following review:

http://www.largeformatphotography.info/kodak/masterview.html

Note the reference to a "trombone" type of situation.

Are you saying that the front knurled knob has no "purchase" when you tighten it?

By the way, judging from photos, you might also benefit from installing some thin cork sheeting on the metal edges of the piece that holds the lens boards and which is moved to supply axis tilt. Although the cork is not absolutely necessary, many here have installed such cork and I believe the axis tilt mechanism does work much better when the cork provides the added friction

Perhaps others on the thread will chime in as well?

Thank you for this reference.

My mistake was not pulling out all the tracks. The knob was definitely coming to a stop, I just couldn't determine what its purpose is. The bottom line is that is locks/releases the outer movable track.

This camera is missing its handle and attachment brackets; are there any sources for obtaining the original type hardware?

Mahler_one · Mar 23, 2013

Happy to be of any help.

Regarding the handle and bracket: I hope that the price was really "right" for the camera and that you have no other issues ( see below ).

I suspect that obtaining the original parts would be difficult to impossible. A few years ago I tried to reach an appropriate person at Kodak in hopes that there might have been some boxes with parts for the KMV in some storage area or back room. No luck in finding anyone who might have been able to help.

However, all is not lost. Ari ( above ) graciously sent me a PDF of the parts list for the KMV. There is a template one can use in order to actually make a new leather handle. Moreover, I think it likely that a machine shop can easily make the attachment brackets. I suspect that Ari would forward the material to you as well-or, if OK with him, I can easily send you the PDF. Simply send me a PM with your personal email address.

I hate to ask, but I wonder: Have you extended the bellows to the maximum and checked for pin holes? New bellows are available, but can be costly.

Let's see if we can get you up and running and into the field taking photos!

doughowk · Mar 23, 2013

My KMV arrived as a real beater - missing parts including the 8X10 back. But I got lucky. Was alerted by Eliot and others of some KMV parts sales on ePrey.
Would suggest being on alert for a beater that you could combine to make a good one. The bellows, if has pinholes, can always be patched with liquid electricians tape ( I used nearly a whole jar of it to patch a bellows on a 100 yr old Korona 7X17).

Restoring my Kodak Mast View 8x10

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