Restaurant Photography - Shooting aka Photographing - Customers

McSafety · Apr 22, 2021

Hi All,

I have a question about shooting customers in a restaurant situation - where I've asked them and they've given permission.

I've been asked to shoot a restaurant in London, and will be taking location shots, food shots, and also some shots while its busy with customers.

The images will be for their website, gallery and some for social.

We’ll put notices up on the day, and its agreed that I’ll politely ask everyone beforehand and get verbal consent to take a picture. No one will be photographed without being asked, and being ok with it.

Of course anyone who doesn’t want to, won’t be photographed.

What we want to avoid is asking all the patrons to sign release forms. We feel that as its for gallery / social use (not a big advertising campaign), that asking politely is respectful, but going up to them with forms will be a bit intrusive on their experience.

My question is this:

I know that release forms are good practicem but... is it reasonable to expect that in the worst case scenario, if someone objects to being in an online gallery, all we do is take the image down when requested? We will have asked them on the day, and put signs up.

Although I want to avoid walking round with release forms for everyone, I will do if needed.

Does anyone have experience of shooting restaurants, bars or similar type places such as this?

Thanks
{thread title finally edited by moderator}

radiant · Apr 22, 2021

I would guess by being more specific (when asking permission) of where the photos are used reduces the amount of possible negative feedback. Then the subject knows what she/he is agreeing on.

MattKing · Apr 22, 2021

Welcome to Photrio.
It may be because I am sensitized to the issues in the USA, but I would avoid referring to it as "shooting" customers.
Releases are the most foolproof approach.
Following that, getting some sort of less formal written consent is a good idea.
Something like a sign-up sheet where people get a chance to say yes or no, and provide their contact information.
If you have email addresses, the restaurant can then follow up and do something like sharing the results, along with a free appetizer as thanks. Giving the participant the ability to share with their friends a photo which features them may be the best advertisement of all.
If you are lucky, some customers will be there celebrating something - makes for great photos!
You don't want a later argument where someone denies giving their permission.
If the result is really successful, the contact information will make it easier for the restaurant owner to reach out with releases if something like a print advertisement is in the plans.

railwayman3 · Apr 22, 2021

Assuming that your restaurant is a bit "upmarket", I'm not sure that this is a good idea. We occasionally (once or twice a year as a treat ! ) eat at one of the better London restaurants, and all these seem to have a "no cameras", "no mobile phones" rule which all customers seem to observe with no problems. Personally, I would not be at all happy if, having saved up and looked forward to a special meal, to be pestered by a photographer on any basis, even working with others in the same room !!! At the very least, I would complain and never go there again.

Surely any aspiring restaurant would arrange a private photo-session with a few models (not necessarily expensive professional models), who would be happy to pose for much more satisfactory results and with appropriate model release forms. The photographer can then direct and shoot without ruining the experience for those who just want to quietly enjoy a nice meal without being disturbed ?

MattKing · Apr 22, 2021

Outside of doing this with models, you may wish to consider doing this with the owner's friends on a day or at a time when the restaurant is normally closed.
Which would probably make signed releases easy!

wiltw · Apr 22, 2021

Be sure to pay greater heed to suggestions coming from within YOUR COUNTRY, as the laws can vary!

My first reaction is that your approach (ask verbally, have signs, but sign no releases) leaves your client with some 'exposure' to a customer later claiming that they did not read the signs and did not verbally consent (which is feasible to mix up those consenting vs those no consenting). Perhaps the wisest way to deal with that is to have a RED SGN ('No Photos!') placed at each table at which guests have NOT given consent, so that the photographer has a visual reminder not to include those guests in any shots to be used commercially by the restaurant. That way it is visually VERY distinctive to any guests too engrossed to read signs as they enter, and very clear to any court that guests had made it very clear via the signage that they had NOT consented to photos used.
OTOH, the lack of a signature leaves your CLIENT at risk of a restaurant customer later claiming that they did NOT consent, with no PROOF for your client proving otherwise!

Don_ih · Apr 22, 2021

Notices in the restaurant and direct asking for permission should be fine. You say the photos are for promotional/social media use for the restaurant. You give each person a card and tell them they can request any time to have their image taken down, if they change their mind. 9/10 people will smile and say "Sure!"

DonW · Apr 22, 2021

I have done restaurant shoots and have always used models.

foc · Apr 22, 2021

railwayman3 said:
Surely any aspiring restaurant would arrange a private photo-session with a few models (not necessarily expensive professional models), who would be happy to pose for much more satisfactory results and with appropriate model release forms. The photographer can then direct and shoot without ruining the experience for those who just want to quietly enjoy a nice meal without being disturbed ?

This would be the correct way a professional photographer would operate, especially this " The photographer can then direct and shoot......"
Personally, I think photographing ordinary people dining would be more difficult than dealing with models, even amateur ones. BUT then I don't know the client's brief.

Even asking permission and respecting those that say no, what happens if one of the NO people appears in the background or in a window reflection, etc?
Once images go online, the restaurant website, gallery and social media, there can be no full control over them.

Also, you may need to think of public liability insurance for yourself when you are photographing in the restaurant. What if a diner falls over your camera case (for example)

I hope I don't sound too pessimistic but when dealing with the public you should always expect the unexpected.

Sirius Glass · Apr 22, 2021

Please no more shootings, individuals or mass, in or out of restaurants! We had enough long ago.

BrianShaw · Apr 22, 2021

MattKing said:
Outside of doing this with models, you may wish to consider doing this with the owner's friends on a day or at a time when the restaurant is normally closed.
Which would probably make signed releases easy!

I believe this is how many (most?) of the television food shows photograph “realistic” dining scenes. The cost of food is part of a reasonable advertising investment.

gone · Apr 22, 2021

I'm assuming you're shooting digital? Post a small but noticeable sign in the window stating that some photography will be going on (what it's for, and maybe between 1 to 3, 4 to 5, something like that), and anyone not wishing to appear in the shots can simply ask and they'll be deleted. Just take a pic of that person and you'll know who to delete later.

Just knowing it was going to be online would discourage me from appearing in the shots though. Once something is online you lose total control of it, and there are some strange people out there these days.

removedacct1 · Apr 22, 2021

McSafety said:
Hi All,
I have a question about shooting customers in a restaurant situation

I find the phrasing of this very disturbing, given the number of mass shootings we've witnessed in the past year.

DonW · Apr 22, 2021

If I made reservations and the showed up to find a notice about photography being done I would be supremely pissed. Especially if I had driven quite away to get there.

Another thing to consider is not everyone wants a photograph to get out that might be compromising. Such as a someone interviewing with a business competitor etc.

pentaxuser · Apr 22, 2021

McSafety, I hope you remain glad that you asked and the thread is yet young, of course, so plenty of time for more answers to get you to a position of deciding what to do with confidence

pentaxuser

Sirius Glass · Apr 22, 2021

DonW said:
If I made reservations and the showed up to find a notice about photography being done I would be supremely pissed. Especially if I had driven quite away to get there.

Another thing to consider is not everyone wants a photograph to get out that might be compromising. Such as a someone interviewing with a business competitor etc.

A photograph of me dining? Then pay me residuals or free meals.

foc · Apr 23, 2021

paulbarden said:
I find the phrasing of this very disturbing, given the number of mass shootings we've witnessed in the past year.

The phrase used by the OP is a common phrase used in the Uk and Ireland when talking about taking photographs.
It has nothing to do with guns, and since the OP is based in London, UK, I don't see it as offensive or disturbing.
Please bear in mind that this is an international forum and that while all communications are in English, some people's phrases may sound different to different ears.
Contributors and posters come from all over the world and not just one continent.

halfaman · Apr 23, 2021

I don't know in Britain, but in Spain the consent is revocable. Any person can change of idea in the future and ask you to not use their image.

Down Under · Apr 23, 2021

I also dislike the term "shoot" so I will use "photo session" and "session".

As a patron in a restaurant, I would be most unhappy to be approached by some smiling geek with a camera and flash and asked, however politely, if I "minded" having my photo taken for marketing/ promotion/ publicity/ whatever for the establishment.

I value my privacy, and I would say "no" politely but firmly. The photographer would do well to not insist and go on asking as I would then respond more firmly than politely. Everyone I know would do the same.

I would also be annoyed if after having ascertained I do not want my photo taken, you would then proceed with a photo session around our table, using patrons dining at other tables. This to me is a distraction I would not enjoy, and as a paying patron I would object.

The whole thing is fraught with possible misunderstandings and poor explanations and reeks of snake oil marketing. I dislike internet social media and would not lightly accept a verbal assurance of how the photos would be used on such media.

If the restaurant wishes to have any sort of online promotion, it will be best for you (working with the owners/managers) to arrange a professional photo session with models. The cost of food and drinks (no alcohol should be served during the actual session) should be included in this project. Some 'models' will be happy to work without pay for a good dinner but a lot of co-ordination will be required re appropriate clothing and grooming.

Do it professionally. You are after all (so we believe) a professional photographer, and this is the only way to work.

guangong · Apr 23, 2021

For my long ongoing project on obesity, I regularly shoot in restaurants, bars, and other eating places, but usually not in upscale joints. Of course, these are public places, and my work is not commercial. For commercial work, if not sure, I would consult an attorney for legal advice. Better to be safe than sorry. Nowadays, there are too many people looking to sue. For discretions sake, I normally use a Leica or subminiature, but sometimes just sketch with a fountain pen.

Sirius Glass · Apr 23, 2021

foc said:
The phrase used by the OP is a common phrase used in the Uk and Ireland when talking about taking photographs.
It has nothing to do with guns, and since the OP is based in London, UK, I don't see it as offensive or disturbing.
Please bear in mind that this is an international forum and that while all communications are in English, some people's phrases may sound different to different ears.
Contributors and posters come from all over the world and not just one continent.

For example when one has finished a meal in polite company in Australia, one should not say, "I am stuffed."

removedacct1 · Apr 23, 2021

foc said:
The phrase used by the OP is a common phrase used in the Uk and Ireland when talking about taking photographs.
It has nothing to do with guns, and since the OP is based in London, UK, I don't see it as offensive or disturbing.
Please bear in mind that this is an international forum and that while all communications are in English, some people's phrases may sound different to different ears.
Contributors and posters come from all over the world and not just one continent.

I'm aware of that. Its common language here in the USA as well. My remark is intended more to suggest that as a community, we adopt different language to describe this activity.

pentaxuser · Apr 23, 2021

I have read the OP's post again and I suspect that what he wil do and how he will do it may bear little relationship to the scenarios we are describing

I have a feeling that if he is as good as his word then there is likely to be little upset to any of the patrons. He has already said that if anyone whom he will politely approach says no then the matter ends there. The restaurant itself is unlikely to want any problems and he is unlikely to hover over someone, surely?

What surprises me is what he thought we might be able to supply in the way of useful info for a situation that we interpret as we see it and which may be a long way from how things will actually proceed.

I am not even assuming that he is still following what we are saying. I think it probably unlikely. I wouldn't by now if it were me

pentaxuser

Down Under · Apr 23, 2021

Pentaxuser,

Whether or not the OP is still with us and reading is not really relevant. He raised a point of interest and we are commenting on it. Other readers have joined in and posted their viewpoints.

To me the issue here is one of professionalism. A photo session in a restaurant for commercial use must be done professionally.

About twenty years ago I was attending a retirement function in an upmarket Melbourne cafe. The venue had a photographer who would wander around asking patrons at tables if they wanted a photo (for payment of course). She was rather a princess (and as it turned out, the assistant manager's girlfriend). We had just arrived and sat down when she came to our table and snapped a (flash) photo of the table group before flashing a sexy smile and announcing she was taking orders for prints (I recall she wanted A$25 for an 8x10). Two patrons objected, politely. She did not like being contradicted and turned nasty. the AM ran over and aggressively demanded to know why we had been "insulting" to the photographer.

The guest of honor was there with a lady who, to put it diplomatically, was "of special interest" to him but not his wife. One or two others also did not want their images recorded at this event, for whatever reasons of their own. I had no such qualms, but like many others I dislike unwanted intrusions when I am out enjoying myself socially.

To end a long story, the entire party walked out. There was a better cafe across the street and we continued our party there.

Rather an extreme situation in my view, by Australians are forthright in manner and for many (including that photographer gal) tact is not a strong point.

The matter is basically one of privacy. A professional photographer will take this into consideration and act accordingly. I am not a 'pro' by any means but I always ask politely before photographing anyone candidly on the street or elsewhere in public.

pentaxuser · Apr 23, 2021

ozmoose, what you have described was most unfortunate but as I said we have had nothing presented to us that suggests that the OP and the restaurant's action will be anything like this. We can only judge the situation on what the OP has told us is the plan and that plan by its nature remain sketchy in terms of what specifically he will do in the event of a patron objecting to his presence

I can see the "wrong" person, if he is one of them, creating mayhem even with the parameters he has adopted but equally I can see the right person gifted with a modicum of emotional intelligence, being able to handle any situation well.

Let's hope that in the profession and task he has chosen he is gifted with emotional intelligence and completes his assignment successfully.

There was nothing in what he said that indicates to me that he will approach the task like Sir Les Paterson

pentaxuser

Restaurant Photography - Shooting aka Photographing - Customers

McSafety

radiant

MattKing

Moderator

railwayman3

MattKing

Moderator

wiltw

Don_ih

DonW

foc

Sirius Glass

BrianShaw

gone

removedacct1

DonW

pentaxuser

Sirius Glass

foc

halfaman

Down Under

guangong

Sirius Glass

removedacct1

pentaxuser

Down Under

pentaxuser

Restaurant Photography - Shooting aka Photographing - Customers

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