Replenishing XTOL developer

Ian Grant

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I use old Ilford 1 litre , 500mm Rodinal or other dev bottles and squeze the air out when I close them, I tried a concertina bottles but didn't like them. I replenish after every 5 or so films.

Ian
 

Thomas Bertilsson

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Paul,

My working solution is a standard DataTainer 2L bottle. The replenisher is in two 2L and one 1L accordion bottles. This has worked well for me with both Edwal 12 and Xtol. (I've temporarily stopped using Edwal 12 due to high cost and problems for the Photographers Formulary to find the necessary PPD).

According to Ian YMMV...
 

markbarendt

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I just finished emptying a 5 liter box of wine and I am planning to try using that bladder.
 

Thomas Bertilsson

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Mark, you drinking that much wine on a Friday morning?
 

DKT

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you can use TMAX RS in a similar way as XTOL, but XTOL lasts a lot longer and it works a little better with more types of film. Kodak is pretty conservative with their capacities for both those developers. In replenished tank lines you can stretch TMAX RS out to like 4 months or so, some people go to 6 even.

there are 2 ways to basically replenish with these developers that don't require another replenisher. you can go the old school control strip/process control plots, or you can eyeball it. As posted above from the guy running the deeptank--you can't over replenish XTOL or TMAX RS. The trick is to start off not replenishing at all, or cut your development maybe 10-20% off the top, and replenish. The developer starts off fresh, and needs to be used up--like they use starter with E6 for example. with the b/w it will run hot at first. As it nears it's good state--seasoned--then start replenish. You start small, and then as the tank ages, you may have to start adding more etc. There's nothing wrong with using less, if your contrast & speed are okay.

XTOL is neat because you can basically just keep replenishing it and turning the tank over to a seasoned state for a long time. It gets dirty & sludgy--I used to drain the tank out every couple of months and strain the bromide sludge out, and then take maybe a liter or something out and add fresh. seemed to work. I like TMAX RS better though. don't like D76 replenished.

in my own darkroom I use TMAX RS in half to one gallon tanks, and when not in use for a time, I drain back into a container. otherwise I use floating lids on the tanks. I use RS for about 6 months and replenish at 45ml per roll. When I used XTOL in the lab at work and at home--I used 85-100ml. You can do about 80 rolls of 135/36 per gallon of TMAX RS. XTOL is pretty wide open.


btw--kodak has a tech sheet buried on their site, that details how to adjust the pH of TMAX RS to get longer times. basically addingt 10-20 ml per gallon of 28% acetic acid to both the working and the replenisher. This shouldn't be a problem with XTOL though. They also have their b/w process control guide online if anyone decides to run control strips. I used to do that--TMY was the stock for the b/w film, Ilford uses FP4 I think.

my opinions only/as always.
 
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Zathras

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How do YOU pre-season the XTOL prior to running a replenished developer?

I was reading the information in Kodak Publication J-109 about pre-seasoning with various developer starter solutions. I decided to look into ordering a developer starter from B&H but concluded that it it would not really be cost effective for me.

I have never used a replenished developer before, and I would like to try it out of curiosity. I am thinking of using the developer the way that Thomas and Nicole and others do, using 2 liters of XTOL for the working solution and using the remaining 3 liters as the replenisher.

I do know that some people use completely exposed old rolls of film to season a fresh batch of developer, and , since I do have some old 120 rolls that are probably not usable for photography, I thought that I could expose the film to room light and develop them to season the developer.

How many rolls of film do you think would I need to use to season2 liters of fresh XTOL?

Thank you,

Mike Sullivan
 
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Thomas Bertilsson

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Hi Mike,
I started seeing my process stabilize at about 10 rolls (120 / 135 mixed), but started looking better with every roll after about 5 rolls. The process might run with more contrast in the first two or three rolls if you don't season (I didn't, and I held back dev time about 20% and got perfect negs).
Keep in mind that when your 3 liter replenisher is spent, you just get another 5 liter kit and continue replenishing with it in perpetuity.
Good riddance! (This is pretty easy, I'm sure you'll love it).

- Thomas
 

Zathras

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Hi Thomas,

Thanks for the information. Since I have a bunch of old film that somebody gave me that is not so great for camera work, I think that I'll sacrifice them to season the developer and start of with a seasoned batch for testing.

Mike
 

Thomas Bertilsson

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That's a good idea. When you're done with the 'sacrifices' (by all means shoot the film and process like normal to get a feel for the system), make sure to try consistent with your film choice. By doing so, you will more readily notice differences in the developer activity, spotting density deviations. If you shoot too many different films, it's difficult at best to get a good feel for what to expect.
As an aside, the Tmax films (100 and 400) are my favorites with Xtol this way. I've used Plus-X and Neopan 400 as well, but I don't get negatives that print as easily as with the TMX and TMY-2 films.

Please let us know your results.

- Thomas

 

Anon Ymous

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I thought about the seasoning period myself and I guess the best method would be to develop some films (depending on the volume that you plan to replenish) as usual, but keep the used developer afterwards. Once you have enough of used developer, replenish some of it and you might get close to the seasoned developer, without sacrificing any film. Any comments?
 

Zathras

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The film I'll be using is quite old and was not stored properly. It is old TRI-X 120 from about 15 years ago. I tried shooting some and did not like the results, so I'm not using it for anything.

When I started reading about replenished and seasoned developers, I thought that this might be a good way use up the old film, so that is what will happen with a few rolls of old film that would otherwise never be used.

Mike
 

Thomas Bertilsson

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Not sure what you mean, honestly.

Your working solution is what's seasoned, so yes you have to use it a few times and run X number of rolls through it (depending on total volume of you working solution). Then your replenisher is fresh and unused Xtol, of which you add 70ml+ after each roll of film you process.

That's how you do it and there isn't really a different way. If you randomly run rolls that are just exposed to sunlight, without running actual test rolls or rolls with real exposures, you will not have a frame of reference, and cannot tell how the process is changing and whether it's stabilized or not.

Some folks process rolls in the fresh batch and don't start to replenish until they see a change in the process. I have replenished my batch every time I've put a roll through it. I'm thinking that perhaps it takes a tad bit longer to build up the seasoned working solution this way, but it'll be consistent and it will be changing slowly so that there are no abrupt changes or surprises.

- Thomas


 

Anon Ymous

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Instead of keeping an eye on the activity of the developer, I was thinking about using some fresh and keeping it for later (replenished) usage. Let's say that you start with using 300ml of dev for every 135 film and accumulate 1,5l of used developer. That should get you close to the point you'd want to be, wouldn't it? In other words, don't start with 1,5l of developer to be seasoned. Make it with 5x300ml batches.
 
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rst

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Thomas Bertilsson said:
... And, if the developer dies on you, you can still use it as a starter for a new batch and mix in say 25% of your dead batch. The byproducts will still remain and will help season the new batch quicker.
Click to expand...
Maybe there will be a market for dead XTOL if this thread goes on Or something like: Send me your fresh XTOL and you will get some seasoned one in return. It might be a good way for people using XTOL undiluted to dispose their used developer

Cheers
Ruediger
 

Thomas Bertilsson

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Never thought of that. What would the gain be?
 

Thomas Bertilsson

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You mean getting people to pay for crusty old developer?
When I used Edwal 12, it was also replenished. And a friend of mine sent me a starter kit containing, I think, 250 or 300ml old brown. It helped to season my developer faster.

 

Anon Ymous

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Thomas Bertilsson said:
Never thought of that. What would the gain be?
Click to expand...

Use less films with a developer that you don't fully know how it works. Once you have enough of the used, replace part of it with fresh and start replenishing. Don't know how much that would help, it's just a thought.
 

rst

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Thomas Bertilsson said:
You mean getting people to pay for crusty old developer?
When I used Edwal 12, it was also replenished. And a friend of mine sent me a starter kit containing, I think, 250 or 300ml old brown. It helped to season my developer faster.
Click to expand...
Here you go, just do not call it crusty and old. Call it starter kit

Cheers
Ruediger
 

Thomas Bertilsson

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To each their own, I suppose. I still don't understand what the gain is, as it still would take the same amount of film to season the developer.
But if it helps you, then I'm all for it! That's what it's about after all, isn't it? The same process doesn't work for everybody.

Anon Ymous said:
Use less films with a developer that you don't fully know how it works. Once you have enough of the used, replace part of it with fresh and start replenishing. Don't know how much that would help, it's just a thought.
Click to expand...
 

Thomas Bertilsson

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LOL. I'll let you know as soon as the bottle has been designed.

rst said:
Here you go, just do not call it crusty and old. Call it starter kit

Cheers
Ruediger
Click to expand...
 

wogster

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Thomas Bertilsson said:
LOL. I'll let you know as soon as the bottle has been designed.
Click to expand...

Yeah, Olde Crusty Browne's XTOL Pre-seasoner..... Just Mix up a Litre of XTOL, leave out the last 100ml of water and put in your 100ml of Olde Crusty Browne's XTOL Pre-seasoner and voila, you have a Litre of seasoned XTOL ready to go....
 

Thomas Bertilsson

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Except Xtol 'Old Brown' isn't brown... It's more a light gray. But it's still Crusty, so I guess it would be OK.
 
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