Replenishing XTOL developer

j-fr · Apr 15, 2006

Replenishing XTOL should be an easy matter: Same solution for developer and replenisher, just ad a certain amount of fresh solution for each film developed and the developer will keep its strength.

Well, first the developer "matures". After a while it gets a little slower and the negative contrast is slightly increased. That's normal and should be expected. But from there it should be possible to keep the strength constant for almost infinite.

My experience is that the amount of fresh solution to be added (70 ml pr 135/120 film) is not enough. Many year ago I had a similar problem with T-MAX RS developer and found that increasing the amount of fresh solution form the 45 ml pr film recommended by Kodak to 60 ml did the trick. I could just go on and on and on with the same stock solution and it kept its working strength completely constant for several years.

But how about the XTOL? Any recommendations?

waynecrider · Apr 15, 2006

If the replenishment regime isn't in "The Film Developing Cookbook", it is certainly online at Kodak. I would fudge it up a little over recommendation but it's usually my precedure to one shot it. Right now I do have a deep tank with some time on it for no other reason then I am developing 1 or 2 sheets once or twice a week and I replace 100ml per 80 square which really is the minimal amount. That's 1/20 of my tank. If there has been alot of time between sessions I will increase the amount.

Christiaan Phleger · Apr 15, 2006

Aloha, I remember reading something about one of the test labs that used Xtol replenished and they went several years with the original mix, just kept topping it up. Kodak gives the replenish info on the Xtol website.

Nicole · Apr 15, 2006

j-fr 70ml is correct for adding fresh stock solution to the old. I haven't had a problem with it and I know a few others who do the same and works very nicely. I've returned to fresh full stock for the time being though due to not having a deep tank availalble until I find another one.

Neanderman · Apr 16, 2006

I started out using 70ml, but bumped it up to 80ml when the shadows started to weaken a bit. Also, I remove a like amount of solution before I add the new and occasionally top it off to the amount I started with.

Stephen Benskin · Apr 16, 2006

I ran a seasoned line with a 70 gallon tank of Xtol. We use 100ml and had a very stable line. The higher replenishment rate helps to cover the Tmax films and films that have heavy exposure. What's the worst case scenario if you way over replenish? You'll have fresh developer. That's a joke, but Xtol isn't twitchy with over replenishment like D-76 so why not? It's a inexpensive developer too.

Ian Grant · Apr 16, 2006

It makes a great cchange to see others posting about replenishing Xtol, or any developer.

It's such an easy and fast way to work and very much more economic, partculary with medium and large format films. While the recommed replenishment rate is fine it can be beneficial to over replenish every so often (3 - 6 months).

What is particularly useful is to keep a notebook and jot down comments about dev times, and the results etc, so you can track any changes. When replenished developers do start to deteriorate its usually a noticeable drp in contrast & density.

Ian

Tom Kershaw · Jul 16, 2009

I'm planning to start using XTOL with replenishment, having previously used one-shot development. What is the correct procedure for removing the solution and adding fresh developer (assuming storage in 2500ml bottles)? I can imagine in a deep tank scenario one could keep the tank at a set level, accounting for developer volume loss when the film is transferred to the stop bath.

Tom.

Ian Grant · Jul 16, 2009

You could add the fresh dev to the bottle before you pour the used dev back into it, stop just short of the top, a few ml either way isn't that critical,

Ian

Nicole · Jul 16, 2009

Hi Tom,

I use Xtol:

1 x 2.5ltr brown glass bottle with replenisher and
2 x 2.5ltr brown glass bottle with stock solution.

i.e. For every 300ml of developer required, I use 230ml replenisher and 70ml of stock solution.

Best wishes,
Nicole

Tom Kershaw said:
I'm planning to start using XTOL with replenishment, having previously used one-shot development. What is the correct procedure for removing the solution and adding fresh developer (assuming storage in 2500ml bottles)? I can imagine in a deep tank scenario one could keep the tank at a set level, accounting for developer volume loss when the film is transferred to the stop bath.

Tom.

trexx · Jul 16, 2009

Nicole said:
Hi Tom,

I use Xtol:

1 x 2.5ltr brown glass bottle with replenisher and
2 x 2.5ltr brown glass bottle with stock solution.

i.e. For every 300ml of developer required, I use 230ml replenisher and 70ml of stock solution.

Best wishes,
Nicole

I am a little inverted from that, maybe you're from down under:
2L accordion bottle of stock Xtol for use as replenisher
2l seasoned stock solution

use 300 ml of stock for a roll. Add 70ml from replenisher tp stock bottle. When development is done pour back from developing tank what will fill the stock bottle.

TR

Thomas Bertilsson · Jul 16, 2009

TR, that's how I do it too. To the button.

2L working solution.
2L accordion bottle with replenisher.

70ml of replenisher is added to the bottle that keeps the working solution before what I used during processing is poured back into storage. The remaining volume of processing solution in the tank is discarded.

I have heard some people claim that 70ml is not enough replenisher to keep the process steady; some use as much as 100ml per roll. I think in Kodak's data sheet it mentions that you adjust the volume needed to keep the process stable, and that 70ml is a suggestion of a place to start. I have found that 70ml per roll works for me, and I wonder if perhaps the amount of replenisher needed can have something to do with the total volume of the working solution.

It's a wonderful developer used this way.

Ian Grant · Jul 16, 2009

Too many people are afraid of using replenished developers it's a shame. Even D76/ID-11 works best this way giving far superior results to one shot.

Ian

Anon Ymous · Jul 16, 2009

Ian Grant said:
Too many people are afraid of using replenished developers it's a shame...

Do you need to have a minimum throughput to keep the process stable?

fotch · Jul 16, 2009

Ian Grant said:
Too many people are afraid of using replenished developers it's a shame. Even D76/ID-11 works best this way giving far superior results to one shot.

Ian

I never replenished because I thought it was used by volume users to save money. Seemed like a lot of work for little gain for someone like myself. Of course, that was a long time ago and the flow of info from sites like APUG is very educational.

So, Ian, what would be the benefits? I may give this a try myself.

Thomas Bertilsson · Jul 16, 2009

I'm not Ian Grant, but I may be able to give some feedback from my own experience.

Anon Ymous - If you don't process any film for a couple of weeks, replenish anyway, and you should be fine. I've done this myself and it works.
fotch - the benefits are finer grain, sharper negatives (prints), and a better tonal separation (especially in the highlights). It's a win win and it's easy to do.

Ian Grant · Jul 16, 2009

Benefits are once seasoned the developers work at their optimum giving finer grain, better tonality and acutance. On top of that it's very economic, as you can process vastly more films per 5 litre (or US gallon) pack.

The beauty of Xtol unlike other developers is that you use fresh dev to replenish, this lets you split a pack as both Thomas & I do into 2.5 litres of working solution the rest as replenisher.

Ian

Arvee · Jul 16, 2009

I followed Thomas' recommendations and set up last weekend. Have processed several rolls and the system works great. I can confirm that my prints do indeed look better as they have finer grain (tougher finding the grain with the grain magnifier), better tonality and appear more crisp.

In the past I used Tmax RS in a replenished mode but didn't stick with it. I will stick with Xtol.

An excellent system!

-F.

Another benefit, not mentioned, is that the volume of waste developer going into the sewer is much smaller and it is environmentally friendly.

Thomas Bertilsson · Jul 16, 2009

Fred, your seasoned working solution will continue to improve for some time until it becomes fully balanced. I found that it took about 10-15 rolls for my 2 liter working solution to 'settle'. If I remember correctly, you are running a smaller volume, so you may get 'seasoned' more quickly.

Arvee · Jul 16, 2009

Thomas,

I am replacing 10% of my total working solution for each roll since I use 750ml brown wine bottles and a VacuVin pump to evacuate all air from the working solution as well as the replenisher solutions. We'll see if the smaller quantity of working solution has a detrimental effect over time.

I also suspect that the working solution will 'ripen' much more quickly.

-F.

wogster · Jul 16, 2009

Ian Grant said:
Too many people are afraid of using replenished developers it's a shame. Even D76/ID-11 works best this way giving far superior results to one shot.

Ian

I think it all comes down to your volume, if your processing say 25 rolls a year, then you end up tossing dead developer and dead replenisher at double the cost. Besides, can you even buy D76 replenisher in 1L packages any more? When I got my current D76, the only replenisher I saw was a 5L pack.....

DLawson · Jul 17, 2009

fotch said:
I never replenished because I thought it was used by volume users to save money. Seemed like a lot of work for little gain for someone like myself. Of course, that was a long time ago and the flow of info from sites like APUG is very educational.

I got the same impression somewhere, long ago. I was meaning to ask just this question, but kept putting it off. The information flow on APUG is absolutely fantastic.

Ian Grant · Jul 17, 2009

wogster said:
I think it all comes down to your volume, if your processing say 25 rolls a year, then you end up tossing dead developer and dead replenisher at double the cost. Besides, can you even buy D76 replenisher in 1L packages any more? When I got my current D76, the only replenisher I saw was a 5L pack.....

Quite true, but it used to work perfectly for me when I shoot 25 maybe 50 films a year, (when at school around 1970 - pre-Xtol but with an equivalent) and even better with my very unpredictable patters of film usage in the 90's and early part of this decade. Xtol wasn't my main developer but the one I used for commercial work, typical throughput could be 25 roll 120 per session, then just the odd film s for a week or even month, but it was very reliable.

The commercial work all goes down another route now, and my personal work gets processed in Pyrocat HD,I still have Xtol made up but it's sat on a shelf a continent away as it's less practical while I'm travelling and darkroom less.

Ian

Thomas Bertilsson · Jul 17, 2009

I processed a roll of film yesterday for the first time in a month. I used the same Xtol I used last time, and just to be safe, I poured the developer out of its container and into a beaker, and replenished with 70ml prior to developing.
Then I ran my film through, replenished again as usual, and the film looked just as well as it did last time I used it.
Xtol replenished seems to be an extremely robust and reliable process. Very stable. If you do process only one or two films per month, you will want to replenish probably the equivalent of one film every two weeks whether you process film or not. Just to be safe.
And, if the developer dies on you, you can still use it as a starter for a new batch and mix in say 25% of your dead batch. The byproducts will still remain and will help season the new batch quicker.
But if you look after your working solution, you shouldn't have to do that anyway.

- Thomas

Paul Sorensen · Jul 17, 2009

Thomas and Ian, how do you store the stock to be used as replenisher? I am guessing that the working stock will be in a mostly full bottle, no problem there, but for the replenisher the bottle will be getting more and more empty all the time. Do you take steps to keep air out? Do you store in smaller bottles so that it only has air on it for a smaller amount of time?

Thanks!

Replenishing XTOL developer

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