Replenished D76 foaming excessively

[pbromaghin]

Halfway through my first try at home-brew replenished D76 it has started foaming like bubble soap. Well, a bit of an exaggeration, but enough for the foam to affect the topmost reel of film in the canister.

Both the original working solution and the replenisher were mixed using a recipe posted here several times and several websites, including Digital Truth. All dry ingredients were measured on an electronic kitchen scale accurate to .01 gm. Using distilled water, I made 2 liters of working solution and one liter of replenisher and replenished at the rate of 30ml per roll. A second liter was made as the first was nearing its end. The foaming started near the end of the 1st liter but became pronounced with the end of the first and the beginning of the 2nd.

What did I screw up?

 

[RalphLambrecht]

Halfway through my first try at home-brew replenished D76 it has started foaming like bubble soap. Well, a bit of an exaggeration, but enough for the foam to affect the topmost reel of film in the canister.

Both the original working solution and the replenisher were mixed using a recipe posted here several times and several websites, including Digital Truth. All dry ingredients were measured on an electronic kitchen scale accurate to .01 gm. Using distilled water, I made 2 liters of working solution and one liter of replenisher and replenished at the rate of 30ml per roll. A second liter was made as the first was nearing its end. The foaming started near the end of the 1st liter but became pronounced with the end of the first and the beginning of the 2nd.

What did I screw up?

I never experienced that butI'm using D76 1+1 as one-shot developer and never replenish for con sistency.

 

[Dali]

Halfway through my first try at home-brew replenished D76 it has started foaming like bubble soap. Well, a bit of an exaggeration, but enough for the foam to affect the topmost reel of film in the canister.

Both the original working solution and the replenisher were mixed using a recipe posted here several times and several websites, including Digital Truth. All dry ingredients were measured on an electronic kitchen scale accurate to .01 gm. Using distilled water, I made 2 liters of working solution and one liter of replenisher and replenished at the rate of 30ml per roll. A second liter was made as the first was nearing its end. The foaming started near the end of the 1st liter but became pronounced with the end of the first and the beginning of the 2nd.

What did I screw up?

What film are you developing?

 

[pbromaghin]

What film are you developing?

The film in question was Fp4+ 120, 2 rolls each in a quart- and a liter-sized stainless. After that I did 5 rolls of Hp5+ in a 2-liter Jobo plastic containing the very last of the first liter of replenisher. For the Hp5+ there was a lot of foam but due to the size of the canister it did not reach down to the film.

 

[pbromaghin]

I never experienced that butI'm using D76 1+1 as one-shot developer and never replenish for con sistency.

Thank you, Ralph. That might be the direction I end up going.

 

[F4U]

Never heard of that, ever. But why use D-76 straight? D-76 is fine, used 1:1 and thrown out. D-23 would be my choice for replenishment, since it's customarily used straight to begin with. And either developer is very much like the other,in final results anyway. D-76 is a great developer But if you've ever gone a year of of doing any photography, and pulled out your half filled gallon jug of D-76 expecting it to be still good, it can be brown and smell so bad it'll make you barf.

 

[Ian Grant]

Never heard of that, ever. But why use D-76 straight? D-76 is fine, used 1:1 and thrown out. D-23 would be my choice for replenishment, since it's customarily used straight to begin with. And either developer is very much like the other,in final results anyway. D-76 is a great developer But if you've ever gone a year of of doing any photography, and pulled out your half filled gallon jug of D-76 expecting it to be still good, it can be brown and smell so bad it'll make you barf.

D76 was designed to be used replenished, Once ripened the results are actually superior to use at 1+1.

There are surfactants in modern film & paper emulsions, these differ between manufacturers, they are there to aid coating and also help in processing. I know when I do long printing sessions my paper developer builds up surfactant and forms bubbles, that would be foaming in a developing tank.

Ian

 

[koraks]

There are surfactants in modern film & paper emulsions

Bingo.

 

[Sanug]

The issue may be caused by the Ilford films. They foam even with a one shot developer.

 

[DeletedAcct1]

Halfway through my first try at home-brew replenished D76 it has started foaming like bubble soap. Well, a bit of an exaggeration, but enough for the foam to affect the topmost reel of film in the canister.

Both the original working solution and the replenisher were mixed using a recipe posted here several times and several websites, including Digital Truth. All dry ingredients were measured on an electronic kitchen scale accurate to .01 gm. Using distilled water, I made 2 liters of working solution and one liter of replenisher and replenished at the rate of 30ml per roll. A second liter was made as the first was nearing its end. The foaming started near the end of the 1st liter but became pronounced with the end of the first and the beginning of the 2nd.

What did I screw up?

The excessive foam is the results of the wetting agent in the films that passes in solution.

 

[Dali]

Exactly what I thought when I asked what type of film. I am fed up with Ilford / Kentmere films foaming like crazy and plan to go back to Tri-X very soon.

 

[Don_ih]

I've been using D76 replenished for a couple of years and it doesn't foam up. I have developed Ilford, Kentmere, and Foma films in it without any sign of foam.

Perhaps there is the slightest amount of photo flo (or similar) remaining on your reels and building up in your developer.

 

[F4U]

Begs the question as to why a film manufacturer would deliberately put something in their film to make bubbles or foam. Or could it be people might not be rinsing out their tanks to be sure there was no photo flo on them?

 

[Dali]

I've been using D76 replenished for a couple of years and it doesn't foam up. I have developed Ilford, Kentmere, and Foma films in it without any sign of foam.

Perhaps there is the slightest amount of photo flo (or similar) remaining on your reels and building up in your developer.

Never had foaming with Kodak or Foma films. It only happens with Ilford / Kentmere, all films developed in same reels / tank.

 

[koraks]

Begs the question as to why a film manufacturer would deliberately put something in their film to make bubbles or foam.

See #7. To improve coating performance and to help the film wet evenly during processing.

 

[Truzi]

Rabies?

Seriously, I was going to mention surfactants, but others already have.

 

[Paul Howell]

Over the years I've read same complaints about ILford films. I just bought a roll of HP 5+ which I intend to process at 800 in Diafine. As Diafine is always used replenished I will be intrested to see if there is any foaming.

 

[Don_ih]

I've developed hundreds of feet of Ilford film and not had anything I'd call foaming.

I don't develop Kodak film in replenished D76 because it kills the developer.

However, if you think a particular film makes your developer foam, do a rinse beforehand. A few minutes soak should take care of it.

It'll also help rinse residual photoflo off your reels and the inside of your tank.

 

[Doremus Scudder]

This is the reason Ilford does not recommend a pre-soak before developing. If you don't soak long enough to get those surfactants to even out in the emulsion and surrounding water, then uneven development can occur. If you pre-soak, soak those Ilford films a long time; five minutes or more.

Best,

Doremus

 

[DeletedAcct1]

This is the reason Ilford does not recommend a pre-soak before developing. If you don't soak long enough to get those surfactants to even out in the emulsion and surrounding water, then uneven development can occur. If you pre-soak, soak those Ilford films a long time; five minutes or more.

Best,

Doremus

Or just don't prevash the film altogether.

 

[pbromaghin]

The issue may be caused by the Ilford films. They foam even with a one shot developer.

View attachment 393713

Exactly what it looks like.

 

[pbromaghin]

I've been using D76 replenished for a couple of years and it doesn't foam up. I have developed Ilford, Kentmere, and Foma films in it without any sign of foam.

Perhaps there is the slightest amount of photo flo (or similar) remaining on your reels and building up in your developer.

It has to be the film. My reels and tanks never touch Photoflo. I run each roll through it, see-saw fashion, after taking them off the reels, just prior to hanging up. While I have used D-76 1+1 from Kodak powder, the home-brew replenishing is giving some of the best negatives I've ever had. especially Hp5+. Sharp, contrasty, nearly grain-free on the light box. Despite all the warnings, I think I will pre-wash until the end of this 2nd liter of D-76R, about another 30 rolls, and decide how to continue with the next batch of new working solution.

Thank you all for your help!

Edit: Or maybe I should just start with a new working solution now...

 

[MattKing]

It could also be the particular combination of the film and the water you used.

 

[pbromaghin]

It could also be the particular combination of the film and the water you used.

Are you suggesting a switch from distilled to filtered water?

 

[mshchem]

Why wouldn't all film and paper manufacturers require these agents? I'm not buying the Ilford films froth. They don't (or Kodak, Foma, Fuji) in my processing.

It's the water, or contaminated chemicals, or reused containers....the list goes on and on before I would suspect it's Ilford film.