Replacing the lens on a Kodak 3a: some questions, and am I nuts?

[cptrios]

Hi all,

A couple of months ago, I bought ancient Kodak 3a at a local thrift shop for $5. I'm not sure which model it is, but the final patent listed on the inside of the body is for 1909. Miraculously, the shutter still sort of works! I picked up some 120 spacers and was hoping that I might be able to get a decent 6x14 camera out of the thing. Sadly, the lens turned out to be pretty soft, and not worth the pain of using the camera itself.

So...is it possible to swap out the current lens and shutter for a better one, made for 4x5 cameras? The bellows are somehow fine, and the fold-out front cover and rails make this potentially the smallest (though not lightest) 6x14 camera out there. I know it's physically possible to do it, but the issue is that I'd need a very small lens/shutter combo in order to still be able to fold the thing back up.

There are tons of pages out there with info on large format lenses, but none of them seem to include dimensions beyond filter size. Am I missing one? And if not, does anyone know of a particularly compact one that might work?

For reference, my rough measurements of applicable parts of the current camera:

Lens diameter: 31mm (this can be wider but will no longer fit between the rails past 35mm, which would still allow the camera to mostly close, if not completely.)
Shutter diameter: 57mm
Lens mounting plate diameter: 62mm
Shutter/Lens front depth: 21mm
Lens rear depth: 8mm (there's probably 11mm of space before it gets to close to the film plane)

This is probably off in the future anyway, but any advice would be lovely!

 

[Dan Fromm]

Hmm. Focusing will be a problem. Best approach is probably to lay a ground glass on the film rails, focus the replacement lens at a variety of distances, and make a focusing scale for it. IIRC, FPKs have a focusing scale for the lens fitted. This won't do for a replacement.

To learn more about possible replacement lenses, visit https://mgroleau.com/catalogues_kodak/ to learn which lenses were original issue for 3a FPKs. Then use "the list" to learn about newer alternatives. The first post in this
https://www.largeformatphotography....to-look-for-information-on-LF-(mainly)-lenses discussion has a link to it.

 

[BrianShaw]

Try that lens out first. You may be surprised at the quality. I transplanted a B&L RR in Kodak FPK to a view camera and shot color film. I was quite pleased.

 

[cptrios]

Hmm. Focusing will be a problem. Best approach is probably to lay a ground glass on the film rails, focus the replacement lens at a variety of distances, and make a focusing scale for it. IIRC, FPKs have a focusing scale for the lens fitted. This won't do for a replacement.

To learn more about possible replacement lenses, visit https://mgroleau.com/catalogues_kodak/ to learn which lenses were original issue for 3a FPKs. Then use "the list" to learn about newer alternatives. The first post in this
https://www.largeformatphotography....to-look-for-information-on-LF-(mainly)-lenses discussion has a link to it.

Oh cool, some good info to fish around in there. Thanks!

Try that lens out first. You may be surprised at the quality. I transplanted a B&L RR in Kodak FPK to a view camera and shot color film. I was quite pleased.

I did try it out, actually. Not great results, though it's entirely possible that infinity focus is set badly. I figured shooting at f/45 might alleviate potential issues with that, but who knows. Of the three shots I managed, one was triple-exposed and another had bad camera shake (I don't have a blow tube for that shutter), so it could have been my fault! Here's a crop from the center:

 

[BrianShaw]

I love the neighborhood but a bit surprised by the quality of the picture. What lens is that?

Also, check which aperture system your shutter is using. My FPK is marked in US stops, not f/stop.

 

[cptrios]

I love the neighborhood but a bit surprised by the quality of the picture. What lens is that?

Also, check which aperture system your shutter is using. My FPK is marked in US stops, not f/stop.

Yeah, I have it closed down all the way, and even though it's not marked (the last mark is 128 but the lever goes a bit beyond that) I'm guessing it's around f/45. The lens actually looks clear too, but the rear element is a bit iffy. I am going to try to calibrate infinity focus at some point and then give it another shot, but I have my doubts.

 

[nosmok]

The lens needs to be pulled into the right place onto the focus standard as well-- maybe the whole works got moved one way or another. I have 2 Ansco 3a equivalents, and their lenses (Ilex 7", IIRC) are decently sharp, but camera shake is an issue.

 

[cptrios]

The lens needs to be pulled into the right place onto the focus standard as well-- maybe the whole works got moved one way or another. I have 2 Ansco 3a equivalents, and their lenses (Ilex 7", IIRC) are decently sharp, but camera shake is an issue.

Camera shake is one of the things that makes me interested in swapping lenses. I'm not sure what the best way to actuate the pneumatic shutter is. Maybe just blowing into a rubber tube?

 

[BrianShaw]

It takes a lot of blowing...

I once made an air release using a baby nasal syringe from the pharmacy and some vacuum hose from the auto parts shop. It actually worked.

 

[Donald Qualls]

It takes a lot of blowing...

I once made an air release using a baby nasal syringe from the pharmacy and some vacuum hose from the auto parts shop. It actually worked.

This is equivalent to how those were intended to be operated -- it's the origin of "B" shutter setting (B for Bulb, as in rubber squeeze bulb). You used to be able to buy latex tubing at pharmacies, it's usually a lot more flexible than vacuum hose (doesn't need reinforcement against collapsing since it never has vacuum inside). Otherwise, silicone fuel tubing from model airplane suppliers is another good choice. Flexible is good to avoid camera movement when actuating the shutter.