Replacing silver with dyes

nickandre · Apr 1, 2008

If I have some lith prints is there any way to replace the silver image on the prints with dyes? I want to use Cyan Magenta and Yellow dyes to recreate a color image from black and white negatives shot through red green and blue filters. Is there such a process, like color toners but which replaces the silver?

I've read about some gelatin films used to originally print kodachrome slides in the 40s. You would develop the silver and remove it and it left gelatin in a positive form which could be submerged in a dye. Can someone tell me about that and where to get it (if it's still made)?

Photo Engineer · Apr 1, 2008

Yes, there are ways. If you want to pay for it.

PE

Tomf2468 · Apr 1, 2008

Are you thinking of dye transfer? Materials are very hard to get (no longer made by Kodak).

Tom

Deckled Edge · Apr 2, 2008

The late Philip Hyde demonstrated the dye-transfer method at the Ansel Adams Workshop in Yosemite in 1988. It was fascinating to watch, and his results were astonishing, but, as Tom states, the Super XX film and the transfer gels were long-ago discontinued by Kodak. Learning to do this technique looked about as difficult as learning concert piano, but they still make pianos.
Unless the exacting materials and chemistries are available elsewhere, this is a technique that will take its place with Mastodon wrestling.

Photo Engineer · Apr 2, 2008

I don't think so.

Dead Link Removed

And, of course there are all of Jim Browning's instructions.

But they do make kits to 'develop' a Kodachrome image. It can be done with any film. Three sheets of film in a tricolor camera and development in special developers yield C/M/Y dye images from the silver. Then taping the 3 film sheets together and you have home made Kodachrome.

Someone sells kits.

PE

tim rudman · Apr 2, 2008

tiberiustibz said:
If I have some lith prints is there any way to replace the silver image on the prints with dyes? I want to use Cyan Magenta and Yellow dyes to recreate a color image from black and white negatives shot through red green and blue filters. Is there such a process, like color toners but which replaces the silver?
SNIP QUOTE]

I'm not quite sure what you are asking.
you say you are starting with lith prints, but then say you want to recreate colour images from B&W negs.
It is easy to replace silver in prints with dyes using bleach & redevelopment with colour formers (or couplers as often called), but I don't know if that is what you want to do?
Tim

nickandre · Apr 2, 2008

That would be what I have in mind. So far I have taken 3 pictures through 3 filters (red, green, and blue) and printed each on a sheet of lith film in silver. It was for a photography class at my school. I know K-14 chemistry is a pain to get. Could you point me to a source of the external soluble couplers?

Photo Engineer · Apr 2, 2008

I don't have a reference myself, but the URL is posted here somewhere by someone else who wanted to do what you propose. A company makes up coupler solutions to add to color developers and do what you propose.

PE

CRhymer · Apr 2, 2008

Hello Tiberius,

You might try Rockland Colloid for colour couplers:

http://www.rockaloid.com/instruc2.html

Look down to the Polytoner® Color Toner section.

I have not tried their products. You could also look at these threads:

(there was a url link here which no longer exists)

(there was a url link here which no longer exists)

Cheers,
Clarence

tim rudman · Apr 3, 2008

Oh I see. You have lith negs not lith prints. I understand your post now. You can buy the colour couplers from Rockland and also a kit from Tetenal - they are German and make excellent products.

here is a para from The Toning Book, which has a full chapter on these chromogenic toners, perhaps your library has a copy:

They (Tetenal) produce Multitoner and Multitoner Professional. The former consists of bleach and colour former solutions the colour developer and bleach/fixing solutions have to be acquired separately. The latter consists of everything required for a toning session, i.e. three colour formers, bleach and colour developer as well as bleach/fixer solution (sometimes referred to as blix).

In the US, (and also marketed in the UK) Rockland produce Selectachrome. This consists of three colour formers, developer and activator. The bleach and fix have to be acquired separately. A cautionary note should be added here. The coupler/developer mix may eat into your plastic graduate! Examination of the MSDS suggests MEK [2-butanone (methyl ethyl ketone) ] to be the likely culprit. Use glass measures if possible.

Since then Tetenal have discontinued their 'Professional' version but last time I looked (a while ago) they still made Multitoner. I found them a little easier to use than Rockland but both work well.

Tim

nickandre · Apr 3, 2008

While I'm at it could someone tell me that if I had a flashlight bulb 12 inches away from a piece of Kodachrome 64 slide film shining through a red filter how many seconds I would need to expose that to get proper re-exposure? Ditto for the blue. This makes me want to try K-14 processing. If I get it right someone owes me an atomic cookie.

It will be interesting to produce a psuedo kodachrome until I get that right.

Photo Engineer · Apr 3, 2008

Detailed information is in the patent. The inventors are Bent and Mowrey.

PE

Replacing silver with dyes

Privacy & Transparency

Privacy & Transparency