Replacement shutter for Kodak Ektar 127mm

Cybertrash · Jan 6, 2013

Like many others I made my entry into Large Format photography with a used Speed Graphic press camera, complete with the Kodak 127m Ektar "kit lens". Unfortunately, the supermatic shutter it came in was slow and, due to an accute lack of brain cells on my part, I'd figure I could fix this problem myself (around these parts a standard "CLA" would cost more than an entirely new lens from eBay). Needless to say, this shutter has seen it's final accutation.

Now despite having ruined such a fine old piece of machinery, I still have the actual lens, which is in a very nice condition. I thought I might get try to get a hold of a replacement shutter that will fit this lens, rather than getting a new lens entirely (hoping, obviously, to save some money). Unfortunately I am not quite sure what is available. Obviously the Kodak Supermatic shutter would work, but I am having some trouble finding one that doesn't already have a lens in it. What other options do I have?

And of course, a related question, is there a point to this venture, or am I completely misguided? Would I be better off just cutting my losses and getting a new 127mm Ektar, or shouldn't I bother with the lens at all, but rather recalibrate the camera (rangefinder and so on) to another focal length, such as my 165mm "normal" lens (allthough I think 127mm seems like a nice focal length for "press style" photos).

henry finley · Jan 6, 2013

I've seen supermatics on EBAY regularly. If I recall, you need the most common Supermatic #2. Or Supermatic X size #2. Research that though. It's just my memory. I guess you know now a little naptha with about 15% paint thinner mixed in would have cured the problem. Or some KCI 4-Way spray (which is the best). Never use WD40, unless you're sure to soak it in pure naptha or lighter fluid afterward. Pure naptha dries it out too much and methylene chloride strips the paint.

BrianShaw · Jan 6, 2013

Henry, henry, henry... you may have it a little mixed up. I think you meant to write, "NEVER used WD-40, EVER."

... and, perhaps, you even forgot to mention that shutters need to be properly lubricate after being cleaned.

henry finley · Jan 6, 2013

I agree on WD40, to tell the truth. Some people are hell-bent fans of it, so that's why I say use lots of naptha afterward. Then your shutter will come up to speed. That is until it grinds itself up from being bone dry. If you use 4-Way, which is an obscure brand, you really don't need to lubricate, unless you can afford it. But you can get by without it and not hurt much.

Cybertrash · Jan 7, 2013

henry finley said:
I've seen supermatics on EBAY regularly. If I recall, you need the most common Supermatic #2. Or Supermatic X size #2. Research that though. It's just my memory. I guess you know now a little naptha with about 15% paint thinner mixed in would have cured the problem..

One is always smarter looking backwards, eh? The worst part is that it'd been fine if it wasn't for one screw on the back falling out.... Oh well.

I've been searching for Superamtic #2 shutters for quite a while on eBay, but to no avail unfortunately, am I just unlucky, or are they rare?

BrianShaw · Jan 7, 2013

Unlucky. Haven't you noticed that whatever we need is "temproarily unavailable" on ebay at the time of our need... no matter how common (and inexpensive) they were when we were "just looking"? That is like one of the latest laws of physics!

Cybertrash · Jan 7, 2013

Ah, it is not unlike playing with LEGOs as a child then....

I managed to er, "convert" the poor thing into a barrel lens (got the aperture mechanism back in place, and screwed together the casing so it sits where it should), seeing as I have a FP shutter it should hopefully suffice until I can get a hold of a new supermatic, speeds are probably even worse than they were with the in-lens shutter, but hey.

henry finley · Jan 8, 2013

Cybertrash said:
Ah, it is not unlike playing with LEGOs as a child then....

I managed to er, "convert" the poor thing into a barrel lens (got the aperture mechanism back in place, and screwed together the casing so it sits where it should), seeing as I have a FP shutter it should hopefully suffice until I can get a hold of a new supermatic, speeds are probably even worse than they were with the in-lens shutter, but hey.

You'll be fine. Might want to work a drop of 3in1 oil into the 4 curtain bearings. It probably chatters from being dry.

Cybertrash · Jan 8, 2013

henry finley said:
You'll be fine. Might want to work a drop of 3in1 oil into the 4 curtain bearings. It probably chatters from being dry.

How would I go about doing that? As you can imagine, I'm not all that excited by the though of further DIY 'maintenance'...

snederhiser · Jan 8, 2013

Hello CyberTrash;
Get a precision oiler, with the camera folded up and resting on your lap with the back facing you, take out the five screws holding on the spring back. Remove this! On the left side of the camera are two bearings with a hole top and bottom. From the outside place two drops of oil in each hole. On the right side top is the winding mech. Place another two drops on the shaft, letting it soak in, and while you are there place a drop on the winder. Lower right is the tension setting knob, place a drop here and look for the shaft going into the curtain drum. Place two drops there letting it soak in. Put the back on, this usually takes me ten minutes to do. By the way, I have an extra Supermatic shutter that was CLA'ed to fit a 127 ektar. Military X syncro. The above instructions are for a Anniversary Speed Graphic, Steven.

Cybertrash · Jan 8, 2013

snederhiser said:
Hello CyberTrash;
Get a precision oiler, with the camera folded up and resting on your lap with the back facing you, take out the five screws holding on the spring back. Remove this! On the left side of the camera are two bearings with a hole top and bottom. From the outside place two drops of oil in each hole. On the right side top is the winding mech. Place another two drops on the shaft, letting it soak in, and while you are there place a drop on the winder. Lower right is the tension setting knob, place a drop here and look for the shaft going into the curtain drum. Place two drops there letting it soak in. Put the back on, this usually takes me ten minutes to do. By the way, I have an extra Supermatic shutter that was CLA'ed to fit a 127 ektar. Military X syncro. The above instructions are for a Anniversary Speed Graphic, Steven.

That does sound fairly simple... No risk of any springs or other funny business going flying off acidentally? I assume this image would be a good approximation of what I could expect to find under the spring back?

About the shutter: Would you perhaps be willing to part with it for a certain monetary compensation?

BrianShaw · Jan 8, 2013

... but PLEASE don't use 3-in-1 oil. That is for coarser applications. PLEASE find some watch/clock oil.

p.s. that picture is EXACTLY what you will see when you remove the back.

E. von Hoegh · Jan 8, 2013

BrianShaw;1443940[B said:
]... but PLEASE don't use 3-in-1 oil. That is for coarser applications. PLEASE find some watch/clock oil.[/B]
p.s. that picture is EXACTLY what you will see when you remove the back.

You might be pushing rope here.

BrianShaw · Jan 8, 2013

I know, you are correct, but I felt obligated to say something.

E. von Hoegh · Jan 8, 2013

BrianShaw said:
I know, you are correct, but I felt obligated to say something.

Me too, but you beat me to it.

Pure neat's foot oil would be a better choice than 3-in-1. Extra-virgin olive oil would be a better choice... castor oil is an incredibly good lubricant... jojoba oil...

Cybertrash · Jan 8, 2013

I must confess that I am fairly ignorant when it comes to lubricants and oils. I have something labelled "sewing machine oil", which is fairly runny, would that work?

E. von Hoegh · Jan 8, 2013

Cybertrash said:
I must confess that I am fairly ignorant when it comes to lubricants and oils. I have something labelled "sewing machine oil", which is fairly runny, would that work?

It will work, that is it will stop the chattering, but it will eventually spread and leave the bearings dry - as all petroleum oils will. You need a synthetic, vegetable, or animal oil, these oils have the property of "staying put" when applied to clean surfaces.

Nye or Moebius are two brands to look for online, you'll not find them at any local stores. You'll neeed to clean the mechanism first though, which means disassemble, clean the working surfaces with solvent and reassemble.
Then, apply a very small amount of oil ot the pivots. A steel pen - the sort you dip in ink - is a good way to apply the oil.

Cybertrash · Jan 8, 2013

E. von Hoegh said:
It will work, that is it will stop the chattering, but it will eventually spread and leave the bearings dry - as all petroleum oils will. You need a synthetic, vegetable, or animal oil, these oils have the property of "staying put" when applied to clean surfaces.

Nye or Moebius are two brands to look for online, you'll not find them at any local stores. You'll neeed to clean the mechanism first though, which means disassemble, clean the working surfaces with solvent and reassemble.
Then, apply a very small amount of oil ot the pivots. A steel pen - the sort you dip in ink - is a good way to apply the oil.

The entire cleaning process does seem a bit daunting, allthough I can't really say it "chatters" as such, I simply suspect that the speeds may be off as the body shutter has some other problems (the selector lever being stuck).

snederhiser · Jan 9, 2013

Hello CyberTrash;
Yes, this is what you will see after the back is removed. You will notice that the shutter runs on two axles. The top axle runs in two bearings, on the left the bearing has a hole in it. Put two drops in here from the outside. Right side axle runs thru just above the winder knob, put two drops from the outside and one drop on the winder knob where it meets the plate. At the bottom of the plate is a slide lock for the shutter release. Make sure this is in the forward position. The bottom axle is oiled in the same matter except on the right side. Two drops placed where the drum meets the axle inside the camera. Also place a drop on the tension knob where it meets the lower plate. PM me with your email on the shutter, Steven.

Cybertrash · Jan 9, 2013

snederhiser said:
Hello CyberTrash;
Yes, this is what you will see after the back is removed. You will notice that the shutter runs on two axles. The top axle runs in two bearings, on the left the bearing has a hole in it. Put two drops in here from the outside. Right side axle runs thru just above the winder knob, put two drops from the outside and one drop on the winder knob where it meets the plate. At the bottom of the plate is a slide lock for the shutter release. Make sure this is in the forward position. The bottom axle is oiled in the same matter except on the right side. Two drops placed where the drum meets the axle inside the camera. Also place a drop on the tension knob where it meets the lower plate. PM me with your email on the shutter, Steven.

Would this be with the shutter in the "O" position then?

I also sent you a PM.

Replacement shutter for Kodak Ektar 127mm

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