Repeating blank sections on film (Pics Inside)

tron_ · Jun 30, 2017

I've had an extremely frustrating problem with my Jobo ATL-3 the past 2 rolls of film I developed. It seems like there is a repeating pattern of "blank" frames on my film. I have no idea what is causing this, the film goes on the reels smoothly, I'm putting the correct amount of chemicals in the Jobo bottles, the Jobo seems to be agitating just fine.

It's happened with some C-41 film and now with a roll of Foma Retropan. Two different cameras too so it can't be a gear issue. Please help!

Here's what happened with my C-41 film

Nige · Jun 30, 2017

exposed in same camera?

tron_ · Jun 30, 2017

Hi, thanks so much for the reply. Nope, two completely different cameras. One camera loaded using C-41 film and one camera shot loaded with B&W film.

Petraio Prime · Jun 30, 2017

Frame numbers absent in blank area, which means developer not reaching the blank area.

MattKing · Jun 30, 2017

Petraio Prime said:
Frame numbers absent in blank area, which means developer not reaching the blank area.

+1

tron_ · Jun 30, 2017

Would that be due to the film touching itself? I agree not seeing frame numbers makes it appear that way!

Anyways I just burned a roll of 24exp TMax 100 in the house and it's currently in the Jobo. I made sure to be VERY careful loading it, we'll see how it looks in about an hour!

Thanks everyone for the comments, I truly appreciate it.

AgX · Jul 1, 2017

It seems the drum (or rather the reel !) was standing still for most of the time, during the developing stage.

If there are several patches on one film I would rewind the film onto the reel to see whether those patches are all located on the same radial. (And then thus all above fluid-level.)

hacked - sepiareverb · Jul 1, 2017

tron_ said:
Would that be due to the film touching itself?

No, the Fixer would not penetrate then either, leaving raw film as it comes from the factory in those spots. I would suspect not enough developer, but for some reason your volume of Fixer is sufficient.

Gerald C Koch · Jul 1, 2017

The problem with not having enough solution is that the blank areas are defined vertically and the edges of the areas are sharp. Were it not for the OP saying that two cameras were involved it would look like a focal plane shutter problem.

bdial · Jul 1, 2017

Perhaps the reel is not rotating with the tank, that is, staying stationary while the tank rotates around it.
Not sure what would cause that, however.

AgX · Jul 1, 2017

If the rotation of the drum only started at the very end of the developing stage, from then on worked perfectly, then we would likely have this result and the OP might have been lead to believe that the processor would be working all right.
The same if it would have started but short after stopped until the next stage, then working fine again. Or not even that but just enough to clear the film.

What about a bad contact to the motor?

AgX · Jul 1, 2017

Gerald C Koch said:
The problem with not having enough solution is that the blank areas are defined vertically and the edges of the areas are sharp.

The fault happened with rotary processing, where level of fluid is at the axle or so.

pentaxuser · Jul 1, 2017

I wonder what happened. The results in about an hour which was about 4:30am BST is now more than 12 hours ago. Perhaps we'll hear very soon It is about 11:00am now in Michigan?

pentaxuser

Gerald C Koch · Jul 1, 2017

AgX said:
The fault happened with rotary processing, where level of fluid is at the axle or so.

What struck me was the sharp demarcation between the undeveloped and developed sections. With a low developer level you would see a fuzzier line.

MattKing · Jul 1, 2017

I am guessing as well that the film reel wasn't rotating during the development stage, but was rotating during the fixer stage.

swchris · Jul 1, 2017

Which Jobo tank did you use and how much chemistry did you fill in?

Are the air seals in the ATL-3 good? Bad air seals could cause too little chemistry to be sucked into the tank.

John Wiegerink · Jul 1, 2017

I'm not familiar with your model Jobo processor, but if the drum turns one way and then reverses that could be it. I had a Jobo CPP-2 and I never had a problem with it. It could be your drum is not making its full 180 degree arc before it is returned in the opposite direction. Put a mark on your tank and run it to see if it makes the 180 degree cycle.

Theo Sulphate · Jul 1, 2017

Petraio Prime said:
Frame numbers absent in blank area, which means developer not reaching the blank area.

+2

tron_ · Jul 3, 2017

So sorry for the delay on my part, things have been busy with the long weekend. So I processed a roll of 24exp Kodak TMax 100 and it turned out perfectly. I'm not sure if this was a fluke or what but I plan to develop another roll of 36exp in the next few days.

If this was an issue of insufficient developer

For my B&W issue we can assume:
-There is an issue with bottle and/or line #3 (the bottle I put B&W developer in)
-There is NOT an issue with bottle and/or line #4 (the bottle I put B&W fixer in) since my film was fixed fine

Based off my C-41 issue we can assume:
-There is NOT an issue with bottle and/or line #5 (the bottle I put C-41 developer in) since my film was developed correctly
-There is an issue with bottle and/or line #6 (the bottle I put my C-41 blix in) since my film was not bleached fine (right?)

This seems highly unlikely since there is most likely one pump in the Jobo ATL-3 that is responsible for pumping all chemicals into the development tank, correct? Not to mention my 24exp Kodak TMax 100 turned out fine!

tron_ · Jul 3, 2017

Also for both I am mixing up 500mL of chemistry and setting the Jobo to 470mL. Jobo 2523 tank with one reel and an 04044 core.

AgX · Jul 3, 2017

It cannot be a fault of a pump or a bottle, resulting in too low level of fluid in the tank.

Such would have resulted in
-) complete blank film segment
-) located at a very end of the film
-) streaky transition between both areas

tron_ · Jul 3, 2017

That's what I'm thinking too. I've had film touch itself years ago and don't remember it looking like this. The fact that it's the entire length of the film makes me think there's no way the film would have touched itself the whole length of the roll.

I contacted Omer Hecht from CatLabs, he wrote:

Indeed this is an unusual situation.

Most likely, caused by contaminated reels or tanks which are affecting only the areas of deep concentrated contamination, preventing the developer to reach that area on the film.

A simple test would be to use new/clean reels and run the test again.

Otherwise, it is possible that the cores in your tanks are worn out and do not hold the entire spin properly causing this effect, though i think its less likely.

Still not sure what's going on here but I'll be testing a roll of 36exp film next.

tron_ · Jul 3, 2017

This leads to the next question, what is the best way to clean the plastic reels to make sure all contaminants are stripped from them? Soak them in isopropyl alcohol?

tron_ · Jul 3, 2017

SO, I was just playing around with my reels and cores and noticed some of my reels are loose on the cores. I believe Omer from CatLabs was partially correct, some of my reels may be worn out and might not be rotating at the same speed as the core/tank.

I just polished off a roll of Acros 100 and loaded it on one of my "tight" reels. It's in the Jobo now and I will post results shortly.

tron_ · Jul 3, 2017

Looks like the Acros turned out fine! The negatives are pretty thin, most likely due to me rushing to shoot a roll around the house but it appears all the edge markings are there and look good.

I think it has to do with some of my reels being loose and not fitting tightly to the cores.

Repeating blank sections on film (Pics Inside)

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Nige

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Petraio Prime

MattKing

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AgX

hacked - sepiareverb

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pentaxuser

Gerald C Koch

MattKing

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swchris

John Wiegerink

Theo Sulphate

tron_

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AgX

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Repeating blank sections on film (Pics Inside)

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