Repairing a REtinette 1a

[gray1720]

My Retinette 1a - see below for link to pic of what appears to be the same model - has gone pear-shaped on me, luckily just before I put a film in it.

When I press the shutter release, having wound on, the shutter blades twitch and no more. They open and close on B, so it's not the blades jamming.

Has anyone any bright ideas? I'm not even sure whether I should be looking in the camera body or the shutter assembly for this. If it's the latter, I can take it down, but I've got no idea if it's inside the body.

Many thanks,

Adrian

https://www.flickr.com/photos/33438906@N06/3114879668/

 

[r.reeder]

Here's my 2-bits worth.
Sounds like the shutter blades are intermittently sticking, albeit most of the time. Might be some oil that has migrated from where it should be to the shutter blades. If you want it to work, I suggest looking at Chris Sherlock's site. Maybe you want to send it to him. He lives in New Zealand, but I've found it to be worth it.

 

[gone]

If you can easily unscrew the front element out, simply clean the blades w/ lighter fluid or alcohol and Q tips. I've fixed countless leaf shutters this way. The Xenar and Xenon lenses can sometimes be difficult to get off as they tend to be over tightened, while the Ektar lenses (the real ones w/ the large silver surround, not the fake black rimmed ones) tend to screw right off. Getting the rear element out is a major PITA on these cameras, and often requires a special tool due to the cramped working conditions.

You have one of my favorite cameras of all time. Even the bottom line 3.5 Xenar will produce stunning photos, and the whole package is very small. Eliminating the rangefinder and making them scale focus made these cameras very simple and compact. Only the fragile film advance toothed pawl may cause you trouble in the future, and you can simply replace the whole camera for a lot less than getting that fixed.

Most people don't know this, but the top of the line Ektar lenses came in two versions. There's the real Ektars that have that silver surround that I mentioned, and which have the correct Ektar Kodak manner of serial numbering. Then there's the fake Ektars that have Schneider serial numbers and a slim black lens surround. These are simply repbadged Schneider lenses. There is a lot of conflicting info on why they did this, but the main thing to know is that all of the lenses are very good. The real Ektars are razor sharp, and often exhibit a Leica-like 3-D way of imaging.

 

[gray1720]

Unfortunately Chris's site doesn't cover the same model of Retinette 1A, and I could get a dozen for the cost of a repair job, plus postage to Aotearoa. I've been in this one from the front before, many years ago, so if no-one else has had a similar problem, I'll go in that way and hope. My suspicion as the shutter doesn't hang in any way at B, which I'd expect it to if it was oily blades, is that the linkage has somehow got deranged, though it's quite possible that it's gunge in a different escapement. My worry with that is that I could only get in so far from the front, and not at all from the back, so may not be able to reach the problem area. I guess I will have to find out the hard way!

Sorry Momus, it's a Retinette, not a Retina, so nothing as exciting as a Xenar, though you are right about the cramped access. My makeshift shutter wrench refused utterly to shift it last time I worked on it.

Adrian

 

[gone]

I just realized that you have a Retinette IA, not a Retina IA. Never mind what I said about lenses and film advance, as all the Retinettes have the 3 element Reomars. Sorry, I misread you post. I had a Retinette once, and 3 element or not, it took very nice photos. 3 element lenses work great as long as you stop them down.

It may be a linkage issue as you say, as normally sticky blades will hang open on B, even after you forcefully readjust the speeds when they stay open. Well, you can usually pick up a Retinette even cheaper than a Retina, so that would be my route if you can't figure out a DIY fix for yours. They feel so solid in your hands.

Here's a nice little folder variant of the Retinette, and he says that the shutter is working fine. Looks almost identical to a Retina IA, except it's knob wind and has the Reomar lens.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Kod...257407?hash=item4af58d4a3f:g:YowAAOxywXFScrzx

There are others of the more recent models for similar money. The Etsy website might have them as well. Giving the shutter a squirt of lighter fluid along the edges so that it will soak in there would be my next move, if you feel the inside may be gummed up. The linkage looks like a DIY possibility if that's the problem.

 

[shutterfinger]

gray the camera in your link has a Compur Rapid shutter, does yours? If not what shutter is on your camera?

 

[gray1720]

Mine does indeed have a Compur Rapid - I have been in it before, many years ago, so I know I can dismantle it thus far, I'm just hoping that someone recognises the problem and can give me guidance before I go in - it's a long time since I've done a shutter, I don't like being beaten when I could have done my research, and I'm a bit nervous that I'll cock it up. I realise that relatively speaking it's a two-a-penny camera, but I'd rather not break it.

Sorry, I'm wittering - I do appreciate your thoughts!

Adrian

 

[shutterfinger]

90%+ its the shutter. Listed as CN-1112-010 in http://benoit.suaudeau.perso.neuf.fr/manuels_rep/obturateurs/Compur-shutter-repair-manual.html
there are small levers attached to the cocking ring that may be sticking and the setting linkage travels in a grove in the case, is spring loaded, and will not engage if dirty or lubrication is dry.
I have both the printed version and the DJVU version of this manual.
Ask me questions if you get stumped, I'm not familiar with the camera but am familiar with Compur Rapid shutters.

 

[gray1720]

Wow, that's great, shutterfinger, thank you! As soon as I feel psyched up, I'll make a start - does the fact that neither the slow nor the fast escapements work mean anything to you?

Adrian

 

[shutterfinger]

The CN-1112-010 is a variation of CN-1110-000, the base shutter, and CN-1110-010 front mounting and control rings as stated on the CN-1112-010 page.
The fact that the shutter operates on B says the shutter is cocking as it would not operate on that setting if it were not cocking.
Speeds from 1 second to 1/100-1/125 are controlled by the delay mechanism and the main cocking spring, speeds above 1/100-1/125 are the main cocking spring and a booster spring.
The shutter needs a full CLA. I do not know if you will need to remove the shutter from the body or not.

I suggest downloading the linked shutter manual and study the sections for your shutter. There are the main section which has the engineering photos showing the components positions in exploded view and numbered in assembly sequence, the special assembly instructions, and the lubrication diagrams. I do not know what the grease types they list are as Zeiss no longer operates the Compur and Prontor companies.
The manual assumes you know how to service a shutter. Use a digital camera and take pictures as you disassemble it as they will make assembly easier.

P.S.
The only connections between the camera body and the shutter is the shutter cocking, rangefinder, and meter if equipped. Set the focus to infinity and pay close attention to how it is coupled to the focusing of the lens. You will not need to remove the shutter from the camera to service the parts on the top of the center plate, CN-1110-000 Tafel 7 index 201. Index 202, the blade controller, index 204, the center collar, and retaining hardware should not be removed as the shutter blades will fall out of position requiring the removal of the center plate.

 

[gray1720]

Brief update, should anyone else find this thread in the future - Chris Sherlock, Retina guru, reckons that the instructions for tearing down a later Retinette on his web page will be accurate enough. My camera is actually an 022 model, not quite the same as the one I pictured.

Adrian

 

[gray1720]

Well, I've been in and out again once, it now works on all speeds except B for some reason,. Just need to give it a proper lube - suggestions for non-migrating lubricant welcome!

Adrian