ReNOOB: Testing stand development with partial film strips & more?

Frank M. · May 7, 2016

I recently returned to (analog) photography and what to develop my own B&W film. After reading up on B&W film processing I want to give semi-stand development a try. I want to play around the various factors that influence the outcome (developer, dilution, duration, agitation scheme).

With "regular" development I would a assume that performing tests with partial filmstrips is okay. Is this also true for (semi-)stand development where developer exhaustion might play a considerable role since a quarter role of 135 will need less developer?

And can results from 135 film be typically also applied to 120 film? I want to test with my old Nikon F-801/N8008 (exact shutter times & good meter) and use the results for my Yashica 124G which is more fun to shoot.

While I like the grainy look of Rodinal in many cases (looking at images online), I feel it is not universal enough as a default solution. So I started to play around (1x120 & 1x125) with HP5+ and LC29 1+100 for 80 min @ 18°C with 30s initial agitation and 2 inversions at 40 minutes. The results do not seem terrible, but there is most likely room for improvement. Is this a good starting point or am I doomed?

Any feedback and comments are welcome.

Thx, Frank

Gerald C Koch · May 7, 2016

Do you have a densitometer for if not the exercise really has little value. You need to know how well the Characteristic Curve (H&D curve) is reproduced by stand development. Changes to the toe and changes to the straight line portion of the curve are significant. You will also need a set of controls made with conventional development.

Xmas · May 8, 2016

A lot simpler using ilfords dilutions times and temperatures.

Unless you have instruments...

Development is trivial fixing and washing critical.

ic-racer · May 8, 2016

You don't need a densitometer. Any hand held exposure meter that can detect a 1/3 stop (0.1log D) change with a film strip placed over the sensor will do. Proper development is almost always indicated by a Zone VIII density that prints just off white (outline of a coin visible on the paper).

Gerald C Koch · May 8, 2016

There are problems with using a light meter in place of a densitometer. First, the sensing cell is rather large and would possibly interfere with measuring small areas of the strip. Second, the accuracy of a light meter is not as good as that of a densitometer. Third, a light meter would not give the type of data used for a H&D plot. If one is going to go to the work of doing the tests needed then it helps to have the right equipment.

John Bragg · May 10, 2016

Hi Frank and welcome back to film. It is not advised to use partial rolls of film in testing since the ammount of emulsion has a direct bearing on the final outcome, especially when using highly dilute developers to near exhaustion. I use HP5+ @ ei200 and develop in HC-110 which is very similar to your chosen developer. I develop for 12 minutes @20°c in 1:63 with my own agitation regime that may be called minimal or suchlike. I like the results as they are repeatable and show no defects or weirdness that can plague those who use full stand regimes. My usual way is to agitate for the first 30 seconds and then only 2 more invertions at 4 minutes and 2 more at 8 minutes and that is it. My only other reccomendation beyond testing is to use a 2 reel tank and only load the top reel as this can help reduce surge marks and artefacts and also with dilute developing, you still need adequate volume of developer to complete the job.

Here is a recent example.

Sculpture (Prawn on a Stick) The Barbican, Plymouth. by John Bragg, on Flickr

Ricardo Miranda · May 11, 2016

John Bragg said:
Hi Frank and welcome back to film. It is not advised to use partial rolls of film in testing since the ammount of emulsion has a direct bearing on the final outcome, especially when using highly dilute developers to near exhaustion. I use HP5+ @ ei200 and develop in HC-110 which is very similar to your chosen developer. I develop for 12 minutes @20°c in 1:63 with my own agitation regime that may be called minimal or suchlike. I like the results as they are repeatable and show no defects or weirdness that can plague those who use full stand regimes. My usual way is to agitate for the first 30 seconds and then only 2 more invertions at 4 minutes and 2 more at 8 minutes and that is it. My only other reccomendation beyond testing is to use a 2 reel tank and only load the top reel as this can help reduce surge marks and artefacts and also with dilute developing, you still need adequate volume of developer to complete the job.

Here is a recent example.

Sculpture (Prawn on a Stick) The Barbican, Plymouth. by John Bragg, on Flickr

A question for you: how did you meter for ISO 200 on a Mju II? Did you put a DX sticker for ISO 200?
Your pic is showing a bit of uneven development. Scanning is very unforgiven.
How's the black leader part? Put it against a very strong light and does it show white streaks?

John Bragg · May 11, 2016

Ricardo Miranda said:
A question for you: how did you meter for ISO 200 on a Mju II? Did you put a DX sticker for ISO 200?
Your pic is showing a bit of uneven development. Scanning is very unforgiven.
How's the black leader part? Put it against a very strong light and does it show white streaks?

Hi Ricardo. Scrape and tape method of re-coding film. Sharp knife and insulation tape. Didn't notice any uneven development. Leader was black and even as always.

Ricardo Miranda · May 11, 2016

Hi John,
Thanks and another thanks for adding the pic to one of my flicker groups.
It's just that there is a whitish strip of the left side running almost the entire length.
So, if you S word the leader you won't get this:

I've had this happen until I changed my initial agitation routine.
You won't necessarily see it at naked eye, but it is in the S word.

John Bragg · May 11, 2016

Ricardo Miranda said:
Hi John,
Thanks and another thanks for adding the pic to one of my flicker groups.
It's just that there is a whitish strip of the left side running almost the entire length.
So, if you S word the leader you won't get this:

I've had this happen until I changed my initial agitation routine.
You won't necessarily see it at naked eye, but it is in the S word.

Thanks Ricardo. I used to have a problem with Jobo tanks and reels but I found that using only the topmost reel of a 2 reel tank cured the problem. It looked like surge marks and was most noticeable with Rodinal which I no longer use. This time round I gave 30 seconds initial invertions with a slight twist. I know that the induction time of an image is crucial, and up til now have given 15 seconds. The intent is to give mid tones and highlights slightly more development (very slightly) without giving more time overall and without affecting the compensation in the shadows. Realy FINE TUNING as opposed to huge changes. How do you do your initial agitation ?

Ricardo Miranda · May 11, 2016

Pretty much the same now, 30 seconds instead of just 4 inversions at start.

John Bragg · May 11, 2016

Ricardo Miranda said:
Pretty much the same now, 30 seconds instead of just 4 inversions at start.

I think that is very important, in that the majority of the development happens in the induction period. I realised that years ago when tray developing orthochromatic lith film positives for screen printing in red safe lighting. You never get to see panchromatic film like that but it was educational ....

ReNOOB: Testing stand development with partial film strips & more?

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