Rena Effendi

vpwphoto · Mar 5, 2013

I was never cut out in my younger years for the hardships of international photojournalism. Anyway I am humbled by the story of Rena Effendi.
The comforts of capitalism kept me confined to the cozy 48 contiguous states.
My kids are nearly grown, and while I don't feel the need to cover anything on another continent, there is plenty here and in this hemisphere that needs a light shown on.

Too many photo-turkeys here on APUG worried about what to photograph with, what film to use. Women like Rena Effendi took the nearest tool available in the budget they had, and got to work.

Enough talk... more work.
I think if you have 200 posts on APUG and no work posted you should go away... I don't really mean that but I am puzzled with people with 1000's of posts and not one photo to show for it.

Ok flame me now. <<< this originally a cheeky admonishment to myself that this post should not be taken too seriously, flame away if you need, but don't hate>>>

Cheers from my corner of the planet... (and I am now working on a self funded, and soliciting other social projects).

whowantstoast · Mar 5, 2013

I agree that it's wonderful to see the work here and I'd love to see more. But I'm sure that there are others like me who participate in discussions, but have a specific reason for not posting photos. You see, the analog process for me ends when the film comes out of the tank. I don't print, though I'd like to someday. When my film is dry I cut and scan, and while I do stay very close to what can be done in the darkroom, I still feel that I'm probably outside APUG's ideals for posting. So I don't post out of respect for the beginning-to-end analog workflow that is the purpose of this site. BUT - the discussions about film, camera work, theory, equipment, events, classifieds, etc.... that stuff can't be had anywhere else (including DPUG). In APUG's FAQ area it says that the site was founded because people were tired of searching through digital forums for relevant info, and I still feel their pain 10 years later. So there's one reason for being part of the discussion without posting images, I'm sure you'll hear more, and I doubt any of us believe we "should go away".

vpwphoto · Mar 5, 2013

whowantstoast said:
You see, the analog process for me ends when the film comes out of the tank. I don't print, though I'd like to someday. When my film is dry I cut and scan, and while I do stay very close to what can be done in the darkroom,

Harsh professor in me.... if you haven't printed but plan to you better start printing now! Making negatives to print with vs scan with are two different places. Printing is much less forgiving. Everyone who posts here has to go d-pug sort of unless we mail prints around.

I'm not buying that if someone has 1000+ things to say that they can't show a few examples of their work.

whowwantstoast... I'll give you a pass... only 24 posts.
Micheal R. I dunno what is the point of being here if you aren't fully immersed (my opinion). EVERY professor I studied under showed their work to the class at some point. I see APUG as a great place to exchange ideas... I like to poke around the gallery for 10 minutes in the morning while sipping coffee. And that is why I posted more prints last month, and will try to put up something new again by summer.

The main thing I am pointing out (which seems to be missed) is so many people sign up here as "passionate about photography and traditional workflow" but just talk and ask about which is better etc. I was/am pointing out that there are so many that have made huge contributions to the visual canon that have not or never will give much a care about what machines they use to create this work. I will argue that even HBC used his fist Leica's out of convenience that they were there and the best he could afford at the time... (late 30's early 40's) Japanese camera copies were a good 5-10 years out... this is the main reason Leica and Rollie are vaunted, but in reality they "legends" were made mostly because they were just about the only reliable tools around. Same goes for Hasselblad,.. they went to orbit... then to the moon (why switch what you know -- same goes for HBC in the 1950's and 1960's...), and the Japanese equivalents weren't on the table yet it was the early 1960's and 1970's... .... and that comes round to my OP ad folks like Vivian.

Rant over...

whowantstoast · Mar 5, 2013

vpwphoto said:
whowwantstoast... I'll give you a pass... only 24 posts.

See, that's just it. I don't need a snarky "pass" from you, and neither does anyone else. And I don't actually care what you think of my process. You said yourself that "Women like Rena Effendi took the nearest tool available in the budget they had, and got to work." That's exactly what I'm doing. APUG says that "This site is mainly focused on community discussions and information regarding traditional photographic processes." Notice that it says discussions? Discussions are the main purpose of this site, and any member who calls for any other members' ouster for "discussing too much" isn't understanding that. Like I said, I'd love to see more images too, but saying we should kick people out for not posting images is just windy posturing. Why would you want people to shut up? That's counterproductive.

MattKing · Mar 5, 2013

The galleries here are a nice convenience, but far from the most important part of APUG.

And photography is a vocation, an avocation and a process with a product.

Some participate for other reasons then showing our photos on a shiny screen that does a lousy job revealing the qualities of a print.

I will agree, however, if you are talking about people who criticise the work of others, without showing their own.

vpwphoto · Mar 5, 2013

Sorry if I came off too snarky...
I understand what you are saying DesrtRat and don't doubt you.
I put a watermark on my images on the gallery (and have been called out for it as some say it is distracting) just for the same reason you outline..... I also have photos that "I do not own".
I stand behind my opinion of more gallery posts... but no I don't want or actually advocate anyone kicked out.... I came right out and said "rant"...and I accept your (others) critique of me without malice.
Cheers.

vpwphoto · Mar 5, 2013

vpwphoto said:
I think if you have 200 posts on APUG and no work posted you should go away... I don't really mean that but I am puzzled with people with 1000's of posts and not one photo to show for it.

Ok flame me now.
Cheers from my corner of the planet... (.

I don't think anyone needs to take me too seriously... and this one is my thread.
Didn't say throw anyone out... just advocating a discussion with IMAGES and words.
Thats all.... and yes I am happy and the world doesn't disappoint me.

I started this thread to get some of these 300-1000- post people to consider posting visually what they are about. Copyright watermarks are OK with me....

batwister · Mar 6, 2013

My thought process, after previously uploading images with plenty of flattering and thoughtful comments: What am I really gaining in my personal development by posting? Who is my audience on APUG? What can it lead to in terms of exposure? Is 'sharing' (regardless of the saccharine connotation of humanitarianism smiled at by people who use that word in relation to pictures) really the sole reason I make photographs? There has to be a point, a potential gain, for myself, deeper than gratification, before I commit to charity - which showing my pictures in any form would be, until I make a sale - but it's not the money, it's the influence. Let's not kid ourselves here, as noble as we think photography is. Sharing for the sake of sharing didn't get us to the 21st century. Peace, love and empathy alone is stasis. Example: Mother Teresa.

Enough watermarked APUG uploads, more work.

AgX · Mar 6, 2013

vpwphoto,

I find your request about members with many forum posts, who do not post photographs, to leave Apug utmost annoying!

Above reasons have been given for a photographer not to post his photographs.
But above that here at Apug are members who do not even call themselves photographers. The designation Analog Photography Users Group indicates a broad field of members.

Jesper · Mar 6, 2013

Publishing in the gallery requires you to have a digital image. I'm one of the neanderthals that has no digital part in the process. I only produce prints on paper and they are awfully hard to push into the computer. My prints are mostly 16x20 from 8x10 negatives.
It is not that I have something against publishing, and one day I might find a way to do so, but it is just that it is not possible for me to do so given the technology I use.

vpwphoto · Mar 6, 2013

AgX said:
vpwphoto,

I find your request about members with many forum posts, who do not post photographs, to leave Apug utmost annoying!

Above reasons have been given for a photographer not to post his photographs.
But above that here at Apug are members who do not even call themselves photographers. The designation Analog Photography Users Group indicates a broad field of members.

Point taken, and thanks for your perspective.

Pfiltz · Mar 6, 2013

I haven't created anything yet to worry about someone making money off it...

LOL

removed account4 · Mar 6, 2013

ego stroking ?

i thought it was to see what people are up to
( if they want to share ) and be inspired ...

i didn't realize how wrong i was ...

removed account4 · Mar 6, 2013

rather than ditch people with more than 1000 posts and no visuals to show for all their
advice, and comments and everything else ...

i think everyone who has more than 500 posts to their name
should refrain from posting ANYTHING for a week ...
no comments in the gallery, no post to threads not even a PM
THAT should get people posting who are timid and freaked out
by the big fish ...

:munch:

Thomas Bertilsson · Mar 6, 2013

We're all allowed to have an opinion of what's important to us, and what is not. I'm one of those people who gravitate to using the gallery more than the forum, but obviously there are those that are on a different journey.

To me it's the variety of backgrounds that make APUG what it is, and discussions of all sorts of things that keeps the site living, breathing, and attractive to others. Often I have sought advice from the forum members when something went wrong in my process, while posting work to the gallery to get feedback on the work that I do and ideas that I have for future and existing projects. Sometimes I even find that I have something to give back, by assisting with my perspective on things in the forum, or extending comments to other people's work in the galleries (either in appreciation, or sometimes suggestive about improvements).

It's all good, if you ask me. We need all kinds of participants. Many are introverts and are not comfortable showing their work in the galleries, while others are more extrovert and don't mind sharing some of their work. It's as much a thing of personality as it is a thing of different needs or what people want out of their participation.

Have fun, guys and gals.

rbultman · Mar 6, 2013

Congratulations to Rena, Lange, and other social photographers around the world who have moved and inspired with their images. Congratulations to the scientists and process engineers who create film emulsions and manufacturing processes that enable them. Congratulations to the engineers who cleverly design cameras and optics capable of focusing those images seen by those photographers on those films.

And thank you, APUG, for existing, for allowing people of all skill levels to participate in this VAST field of photography. Some will come having never taken a picture and need help. Some will come having taken many and need help. Some will make advances in technology. Some will make advances in technique. Some will make advances in seeing that illuminate the human condition. It takes all kinds. Thanks to those at all skill levels who take the time to answer the questions of those slightly more unwashed than themselves, however inane the questions may appear to some.

vpwphoto · Mar 6, 2013

Thanks Tom and Rbultman (and everyone who took the time to read my little rant).

I meant to stir the pot a little (sorry if I dirtied the nest, not my intent but looks like the outcome).

I certainly didn't mean to offend anyone/group... I came right out and said it was a rant and I wasn't entirely serious.

I was just struck again that many of the photographers I respect so much can give nary a thought about which lens is sharper, or what camera is for what process.

I like to help folks with technical issues pertaining to equipment I have used, (I am a bit of a fondler-- although nothing sits on a shelf in my studio... it has a use or it moves on)
or processes/issues I have been confronted with.

I genuinely was puzzled from my perspective with people with 1000's of posts and no images. That was my perspective, and the thoughtful responses have re-grounded me as to what sorts of people enjoy/benefit from APUG. And I thank you.

eddie · Mar 6, 2013

I sort of understand the rant. I'm more likely to take the advice of someone who has posted images. Without seeing what they can do, it's difficult to know how much skepticism to attach to their "expertise". But, there are certain people who i always heed, as I've seen the quality of their work.
I post images for feedback (not ego stroking), especially if I'm doing work I'm unsure of, or new at. I've been lucky to get a lot of help when starting with bromoil and liquid emulsions.

batwister · Mar 6, 2013

vpwphoto said:
I am a bit of a fondler...

There might be other places on the web better suited to your needs.

jvo · Mar 6, 2013

a proud luddite!

hmmm, i'm here on apug because i like the print - process the film, enlarge and process the print, put it on the wall... or hold it in my hand. my work isn't in the class of stieglitz, cameron, strand, karsh, maier, abbot, etc., and i enjoy it, but a book is not likely.

once you go beyond the print aren't you now in the digital world? not a bad place to be, but an investment in dollars, learning and resources, i choose not to make.

i'm a luddite, and a happy one! AND, I do enjoy seeing others posted work - it is inspiring, worthwhile, helpful. fun. am i getting a "free ride"? maybe - i love it!

jvo

p.s. vpwphoto - wasn't snarky - it's good to mix things up a little and think about it! thanks

Thomas Bertilsson · Mar 6, 2013

JimO said:
p.s. vpwphoto - wasn't snarky - it's good to mix things up a little and think about it! thanks

I agree with this. It's good to shake it up a little and get thinking about motivations for what we do.

lxdude · Mar 6, 2013

vpwphoto said:
I think if you have 200 posts on APUG and no work posted you should go away... I don't really mean that but I am puzzled with people with 1000's of posts and not one photo to show for it.

I don't post pictures on here because I don't have a good scanner. If I do post a picture here, it will probably be taken with my little digital P&S and be intended to illustrate something about equipment.
It is seldom necessary to look at someone's work to grasp what they are saying,even in philosophical discussions. Pictures can add credibility to claims and are useful to illustrate points and questions, no doubt.

pdeeh · Mar 6, 2013

Well, I don't have "thousands of posts" ... you won't find my images in the gallery simply because I am not a subscriber and thus do not have the ability to post in the gallery ... and as there are no "image threads" for non-gallery images hosted elsewhere, I don't post images except in relation to developing or printing problems ... as has been pointed out already, a lack of images visible at APUG ( or indeed anywhere on the interweb) bears no relationship to whether an individual is taking photographs or not.

I'm all for stimulating debate, but this seems a rather tiresome and contrived way to provoke it. Also I have backache and am very grumpy tonight.

Rena Effendi

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