Removing a vintage lens from a lens board

brianentz

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I am looking to sell an old Goerz Dagor 210mm lens but was hoping to remove it from the lens board before doing so. It won't provide coverage for 5x7" which is what I intend to use this camera for. Not having dealt with this type of lens before I can't see how to remove it from the lens board and don't want to damage it in the process. Can anyone give me any advice? Perhaps I should sell it attached to the lens board?
 

Mal Paso

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Usually there are 2 spanner slots on a ring around the rear element. Would be in the recess, hard to see if there are slots. It would take a Spanner to unscrew the ring.
 

AnselMortensen

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It looks like the shutter is attached to the lensboard via a metal flange that is screwed to the lens board with small wood screws.
The shutter should unscrew from the flange. (Lefty-Loosey)
I recommend strongly that you detach the flange from the lensboard and include THE FLANGE with the lens...you'll get more $...
 
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Sirius Glass

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Only if the board fit the buyer's camera.
 

GregY

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Try unscrewing it counterclockwise. There's likely a flange screwed to the lensboard. But it won't cover 5x7"? I used a gold rim 8 1/4" Dagor as my standard lens on my 5x7 for years. it covered just fine...always used it stopped down around f22.
And like AnselM said.... unscrew the flange and sell it with the lens
 
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OP
OP

brianentz

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I found the lens listing in the Burke & James 1938 catalogue where it was described as providing coverage for 4x5. But since I almost always shoot stopped down you may be right. Thanks. I haven’t shot with it yet
 

GregY

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brianentz said:
I found the lens listing in the Burke & James 1938 catalogue where it was described as providing coverage for 4x5. But since I almost always shoot stopped down you may be right. Thanks. I haven’t shot with it yet
Click to expand...

A post by IanG on LF forum posted this info:
"Dan, my Goerz Am Opt data from a Gerz catalogue shows the 8¼" as covering 5"x8" at f6.8, 7"x9" at f16 and 10"x12" at f45. That means the lens should be covering 10x8 by around f22/f32.

By 1913 Goerz AM Opt where showing the Dagor 8¼" as sharply covering 10"x12" at f32, using exactly the same wording "size of plate sharply covered"."
 
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jimgalli

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That lens will easily cover 8X10 format. Be careful what you rush into. You'll want it back at some point.
 

Ian Grant

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My 120mm f6.8 Dagor (CP Goerz, Berlin) just covers 5x7 sharply when stopped down to f45. This 210mm covers 7x5 without stopping down and as my above comments covers 10x12 at f45.

Don't be deceived by the small size of the lens, someone has gone to the trouble of having it fitted in a post WWII Prontor SV shutter. They are excellent lenses, I use a 12" (300mm) f6.8 Goerz AM Opt Dagor regularly, it was thrown in with an Agfa Ansco Commercial View, the seller a photography professor said it was old and useless, but admitted he'd never tried using it. I immediately tried it and found it was as good if not better than when manufactured, it had been coated just after WWII.

Give the lens a try it was designed sold for 5x7.

Ian
 

ic-racer

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Is this the one you are selling. 165mm? Or do you have a 210mm also? Confused. Which one does not cover 5x7?
 

Joe Kashi

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The Dagor 467xxx serial number places its year of manufacture about 1921, about five years before the forcible assimilation of Goerz into the post-WWI Zeiss-Ikon conglomerate and at least 25 years before introduction of the Prontor SV MX-synched shutter ( the X-sync contact is also visible in the OP photos). So, as others have noted it's definitely an older lens remounted into a more modern shutter.

As to coverage. a 16 CM Dagor, aka 160mm +/-, will have a sharp coverage angle of at least 75 degrees at normal-taking small apertures such as f/22, likely an even higher coverage angle at f/32 and f/45. That 75 degree angle translates into an coverage circle of at least 240mm, more than enough to coverage 5x7 with some movements. An actual 210mm Dagor would have even more coverage, well beyond 300mm image circle.

As to why B+J listed this or a similar lens in 1938 as a 4x5 lens, one can only surmise that this was because 160mm is a close approximation of the diagonal of a 4x5 negative and hence within what would be considered a normal lens for 4x5 use, albeit with a lot of coverage.

As others have noted, older Dagor and Protar VIIa lenses in good condition are frequently eminently usable today. If you're uncertain about that, just look at same of the technically excellent images produced by Ansel Adams and Edward Weston in the 1930s and 1940s with such lenses. I've seem very big enlargements of Adams images taken with Dagors and Protar VIIa lenses and could not find fault with the resolution or image contrast.
 
OP
OP

brianentz

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Thanks for the input. Considering your inputs and what I’ve found with playing around with camera and lens I plan to keep this lens. The coverage seems sufficient and its reputation is excellent. Can’t wait to get it in order and start making exposures.
 

Joe Kashi

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Even an older 165mm Dagor will cover 5x7 sharply with at least moderate movement at normal taking apertures like f/22. f/32 and f/45, although the lens will likely be diffraction-limited by f/45 and smaller apertures..
 

GKC

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Unscrewing the lens from the flange that's screwed to the lens board with wood screws usually does the trick, but sometimes there is a screw way down in there that prevents you---I've seen this on some shutters that are mounted with a ring on the rear element described in post #2 The purpose of the screw is to prevent the shutter from rotating--- so don't force anything.
 
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