Reintroduction of film cameras

guangong · May 3, 2018

C. 1959-1960 I was able to buy a Nikon F and lens from Japan for $159, way below US selling price at time. Just to put things in perspective, my tuition at Columbia’s Grad Fac A&S in 1959 was $15/credit hour. Steadily increased...now $500/ch..
When watching detective movies from 1950s, do you ever wonder why anyone would get excited by theft of $5000 necklace or $200,000 bank heist?

AgX · May 3, 2018

Ces1um said:
My local lab told me they can only buy old used equipment.

There still is one manufacturer of roller transport film processors in all tastes.

There still is one manufacturer of hanger transport processors.

Ces1um · May 3, 2018

AgX said:
There still is one manufacturer of roller transport film processors in all tastes.

There still is one manufacturer of hanger transport processors.

interesting.... Do you happen to know their names? I could pass that along to them. I assume these are commercial units.

M-88 · May 3, 2018

guangong said:
When watching detective movies from 1950s, do you ever wonder why anyone would get excited by theft of $5000 necklace or $200,000 bank heist?

Inflation in action.

Theo Sulphate · May 4, 2018

guangong said:
...
When watching detective movies from 1950s, do you ever wonder why anyone would get excited by theft of $5000 necklace or $200,000 bank heist?

In L.A. in the 1960's there was a daytime television feature of old movies called the "Million Dollar Movie". Today, a million dollars wouldn't be enough to get the lead actor to appear on the set for the first day of shooting.

Europan · May 4, 2018

We have a new 65mm film movie camera. http://www.in70mm.com/news/2018/magellan/index.htm

MattKing · May 4, 2018

I understand why this subject comes up regularly.
When it comes to people who participate in retail markets, a large percentage get real enjoyment from buying new things.
In addition, most people in the outside world (not Photrio) don't have the skills or knowledge to evaluate the condition or suitability of most of the used camera equipment out there.
As well, it isn't like some of the other robust used equipment markets out there - compared to something like the used car market, there isn't a large and visible industry available to check and service used cameras.
For those of us who are comfortable buying used cameras, we look at the film market and the camera market as being separate markets.
For most people though, they look at the camera market and the film market (and the photo processing market) as being a single market, and the relative unavailability of new and accessible components is a real disincentive.

markjwyatt · May 5, 2018

CMoore said:
Hey Yeah.......are we so sure Mark's Father did not have..."other"... reasons for joining this program.?

If anything, I suspect that was a bonus.

markjwyatt · May 5, 2018

Toyo said:
This is an advertisement from Popular Photography of 1944.
Second hand of course
View attachment 200005

What year was that ad? Keep in mind full outfit included lenses, film holders and maybe backs, flash equipment, ewtc.

CMoore · May 5, 2018

MattKing said:
I understand why this subject comes up regularly.
When it comes to people who participate in retail markets, a large percentage get real enjoyment from buying new things.
In addition, most people in the outside world (not Photrio) don't have the skills or knowledge to evaluate the condition or suitability of most of the used camera equipment out there.
As well, it isn't like some of the other robust used equipment markets out there - compared to something like the used car market, there isn't a large and visible industry available to check and service used cameras.
For those of us who are comfortable buying used cameras, we look at the film market and the camera market as being separate markets.
For most people though, they look at the camera market and the film market (and the photo processing market) as being a single market, and the relative unavailability of new and accessible components is a real disincentive.

Well Said.
Especially people of the "Under 30" generation who Did Not grow up with these cameras and might not have any kind of "romantic" attachment to them. They very well might just seem like Old Cameras to a lot of buyers, and they would very much be interested in buying a new camera for all the reasons that Matt has discussed.
My beginner photo class from last semester is a perfect example. Mostly 20 year olds in that class, and a few observations were interesting.
They had no preconceived ideas about (just for example) Nikon being "better" than Canon, and were not hung up on any of the iterations of any of the models.
They had grown up with Zooms, and were kind of surprised at the lack of Zooms from circa 1975.
Most of them seemed to enjoy the "low tech" aspect of a Film SLR.....simple meters, simple batteries, and the relative "ease of use" when comparing a SLR to a Digital SLR.

AgX · May 5, 2018

CMoore said:
My beginner photo class from last semester is a perfect example. Mostly 20 year olds in that class, and a few observations were interesting.
They had no preconceived ideas about (just for example) Nikon being "better" than Canon, and were not hung up on any of the iterations of any of the models.
They had grown up with Zooms, and were kind of surprised at the lack of Zooms from circa 1975.
Most of them seemed to enjoy the "low tech" aspect of a Film SLR.....simple meters, simple batteries, and the relative "ease of use" when comparing a SLR to a Digital SLR.

But would just that not be an argument for buying used cameras?

Sirius Glass · May 5, 2018

I have always had camera around since the age of eleven, so I do not need to be reintroduced to cameras. Jus' sayin'.

mshchem · May 5, 2018

All you need is a product. I suspect Fuji is making millions of Instax cameras a year. The key is to find a mass market item that kids go nuts for. Maybe a postcard camera, who knows?? Mechanical cameras can be repaired indefinitely, Leica and Nikon may not be selling many new film cameras but the kids are going nuts for NEW manual focus lenses for their mirrorless cameras.
I look for Ilford to make a play. Ilford is got the most to win or lose. I think the new owners have great expectations, just need to understand where to place their bet.

I want 122 roll film and a new postcard camera and printout paper post cards
Mike

CMoore · May 5, 2018

AgX said:
But would just that not be an argument for buying used cameras?

Could be.....i think the point Matt was making is that there is a new generation of photographers that Like the old cameras, and they want THAT, but in a NEW Camera.?
No right or wrong perspective here, as always, some people will see it a bit different than others

I am simply guessing, but my personal break point would be 500 dollars. If a company could offer something "like" an Oly OM1, Pentax K1000.....with a 50mm f/2 lens for 500 bux.....i think they would sell.

I have spent 20-150 on several SLR bodies, and then still had to send them out for a 100-300 dollar CLA.......

Theo Sulphate · May 5, 2018

CMoore said:
...If a company could offer something "like" an Oly OM1, Pentax K1000.....with a 50mm f/2 lens for 500 bux.....i think they would sell.
...

A K1000 equivalent maybe, but not an OM1: the aperture priority automation would add both electronic and mechanical complexity that would necessitate a higher retail price.

The main problem is that those old cameras, such as Nikkormats, were made to last a long time!

E. von Hoegh · May 5, 2018

CMoore said:
Could be.....i think the point Matt was making is that there is a new generation of photographers that Like the old cameras, and they want THAT, but in a NEW Camera.?
No right or wrong perspective here, as always, some people will see it a bit different than others

I am simply guessing, but my personal break point would be 500 dollars. If a company could offer something "like" an Oly OM1, Pentax K1000.....with a 50mm f/2 lens for 500 bux.....i think they would sell.
I have spent 20-150 on several SLR bodies, and then still had to send them out for a 100-300 dollar CLA.......

500 dollarz comes hard these days. My Linhof outfit, STIV, 90, 150, 270 factory cammed with 56x72 Super Rollex, Anatomische grip, sports finder, varifocal optical finder, 20 as new Riteways, case, all original boxes, Linhof passport, cost $1500 in 1986, less than a third of it's market value. Deardorff V8, $995 with two filmholders, 4x5 back, case, a good but not great price at the time - 1989.
The most I have spent on a camera since then is an even $300 for a Contax II with all original accessories, manuals, original bills of sale from 3 July 1937, three years ago. I looked for a good Contax for one year to the day, but the cost needed some saving for.
I would not purchase a newly made film camera at any price, probably wouldn't accept one as a gift. No one knows how to make one anymore.

Chan Tran · May 7, 2018

CMoore said:
Could be.....i think the point Matt was making is that there is a new generation of photographers that Like the old cameras, and they want THAT, but in a NEW Camera.?
No right or wrong perspective here, as always, some people will see it a bit different than others

I am simply guessing, but my personal break point would be 500 dollars. If a company could offer something "like" an Oly OM1, Pentax K1000.....with a 50mm f/2 lens for 500 bux.....i think they would sell.
I have spent 20-150 on several SLR bodies, and then still had to send them out for a 100-300 dollar CLA.......

It's possible only if they can sell in the quantity like before.

Photoguy365 · May 8, 2018

As others have stated, there is very little incentive for a company to march out a new film camera in 2018. We now live in a niche market. Sort of along the lines of vinyl records. Yes, a segment of photographers still shoot film, but more "family" market cameras are digital. And the consumer drives the market. The average camera manufacturer makes more money off of selling Coolpix type cameras than they do pro or prosumer DSLRs. Add in the iPhone and the market really shifts sideways. The average consumer thinks their smart phone takes great pictures... so why purchase a dedicated camera? The family camera used to be a thing. It's just not anymore.

On the positive side, there are thousands of great deals to be had on once unobtainable cameras. Nikon F5s are going for less than $300 these days. F4s are in the $150 range. You can pickup an F3HP for well under $200. I paid over $1k for my used F4 in the 90s- and could only justify it because I got a staff photographer job at a newspaper and wanted to have pro level gear. I would have killed for an F3 when I was in college working on my photojournalism degree. (Sorry, I'm a Nikon guy.) My point is that thee has never been a better time to buy a film camera.

johnha · May 9, 2018

Photoguy365 said:
As others have stated, there is very little incentive for a company to march out a new film camera in 2018. We now live in a niche market. Sort of along the lines of vinyl records. Yes, a segment of photographers still shoot film, but more "family" market cameras are digital. And the consumer drives the market..

I agree, as long as existing film cameras are affordable (some are dirt cheap - less than the cost of buying and processing a couple of rolls of film), any new model will have it's work cut out. Why buy a new K1000 clone for $500 when you can buy a 'proper' old one your mates will appreciate for $100 or less? If you're into film, $500 will buy you much more interesting stuff than a re-manufactured 35mm SLR & 50/2. Spotmatics go for nothing unless they've got an SMC-Tak 50/1.4 on the front - yes they're old but most will work well enough, most AF SLRs are embarrassingly cheap compared to their new prices back in the day.

Ste_S · May 11, 2018

johnha said:
I agree, as long as existing film cameras are affordable (some are dirt cheap - less than the cost of buying and processing a couple of rolls of film), any new model will have it's work cut out.

I'd probably also argue that part of the reason for an increase in interest in film is because of how cheap film cameras are/were.
People were picking them up from relatives for free, or picking them up from markets and charity shops for next to nothing. That phase has almost ended, with things like the Olympus Mju ii sky rocketing in price.

I can see film photography start to contract again with the price of cameras, film and dev/scan rising.

Marcelo Paniagua · May 11, 2018

Ste_S said:
...
I can see film photography start to contract again with the price of cameras, film and dev/scan rising.

I could partly agree with that. It all boils down to offer/demand issues. Film getting expensive, cameras and lens getting expensive, less relative/friends giving up cameras (they try to sell those online now).

On the other hand, if people really get hooked on film, hooked enough to pay high prices for the hobby, demand could sustain, and perhaps increase. Like a lots of things on life, it depends on human nature.

Regards

Marcelo

lxdude · May 14, 2018

Theo Sulphate said:
A K1000 equivalent maybe, but not an OM1: the aperture priority automation would add both electronic and mechanical complexity that would necessitate a higher retail price.

The OM-1 is completely manual.

M-88 · May 14, 2018

Theo Sulphate said:
A K1000 equivalent maybe, but not an OM1: the aperture priority automation would add both electronic and mechanical complexity that would necessitate a higher retail price.

The main problem is that those old cameras, such as Nikkormats, were made to last a long time!

I believe you're mistaking it with OM-2. The only thing that battery operates in OM-1 is "matchstick" type light meter.

RattyMouse · May 14, 2018

Ste_S said:
I'd probably also argue that part of the reason for an increase in interest in film is because of how cheap film cameras are/were.
People were picking them up from relatives for free, or picking them up from markets and charity shops for next to nothing. That phase has almost ended, with things like the Olympus Mju ii sky rocketing in price.

I can see film photography start to contract again with the price of cameras, film and dev/scan rising.

Film cameras are still incredibly cheap. I bought a Fuji GA645 back when the camera first came out. It was $1600. Today you can get good examples for $400. That is dirt cheap for such a world class camera.

Chan Tran · May 14, 2018

Ste_S said:
I'd probably also argue that part of the reason for an increase in interest in film is because of how cheap film cameras are/were.
People were picking them up from relatives for free, or picking them up from markets and charity shops for next to nothing. That phase has almost ended, with things like the Olympus Mju ii sky rocketing in price.

I can see film photography start to contract again with the price of cameras, film and dev/scan rising.

I wonder why people like the Olympus MJU II. I wouldn't even pick it up if I saw it in an estate sales.

Reintroduction of film cameras

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