refurbishing roller rubber

Looking at places that recover rubber typewriter platens, I wondered hey, could they refurb all those old warped and swelled useless processor rollers that are laying around people's attics and basements, including mine, and are impossible to replace these days? And I discovered the answer might just be yes. Maybe my ICP-42 will live again someday?

https://www.jjshort.com/Hard-To-Find-and-Obsolete-Rollers.php

At J.J. Short Associates, Inc. we have been serving the hard-to-find and obsolete niche, as it relates to rubber parts, components and rubber covered rollers since 1977. Rubber has many, excellent qualities, but one bad feature is it deteriorates over time; it hates most cleaning agents and solvents and if stored improperly will crack, become brittle and break in pieces. So bring on your parts and rollers for:

• >>>>>>>Photo Developers I presume this is a quaint way to say photo processors

If the roller is just glazed and isn't getting traction you can try any of the rejuvenator products on the market. Amazon has a selection.

You could ask this guy, he might know something:
https://www.thevoiceofmusic.com/catalog/tape_rec_wheels_pres_rollers.asp

Nicholas Lindan said:

If the roller is just glazed and isn't getting traction you can try any of the rejuvenator products on the market. Amazon has a selection.

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The problem with rollers is usually swelling and warpage, and no chemical fixes that. I hear most of the chemical rejuvenators are temporary fixes anyway, though I haven't tried them.

Auer said:

You could ask this guy, he might know something:
https://www.thevoiceofmusic.com/catalog/tape_rec_wheels_pres_rollers.asp

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My processor lacks a tape deck.

There are firms that offer all kinds of roller refurbishng with different elastic materials, typically for the industry. There even was a firm that was specialized in processor rollers.

However that is not cheap, thus obtaining another used processor might be the better option, unless degrading of rollers is typical for a device. If the roller to roller distance is adjustable and and only the surface has degraded, even refurbishing oneself might be an option.

Wayne said:

Maybe my ICP-42 will live again someday?

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I assume you’re going to ask them for a quote. If you do, would you mind sharing the cost per roller?

Coincidentally, I have just sent a message to a guy here in Brazil that offers this service, but he’s sick (COVID) and will be under quarantine for the next couple of weeks. I have absolutely no idea how much a work like this would cost.

fdonadio said:

I assume you’re going to ask them for a quote. If you do, would you mind sharing the cost per roller?

Coincidentally, I have just sent a message to a guy here in Brazil that offers this service, but he’s sick (COVID) and will be under quarantine for the next couple of weeks. I have absolutely no idea how much a work like this would cost.

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I don't have any immediate plans to request a quote because getting my processor up and running again would be a chore. However based on their prices for typewriter platens I expect it would run up to $150 or so (less for narrower processors), because a platen is $70 to $100 and they are shorter.

Wayne said:

I don't have any immediate plans to request a quote because getting my processor up and running again would be a chore. However based on their prices for typewriter platens I expect it would run up to $150 or so (less for narrower processors), because a platen is $70 to $100 and they are shorter.

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Wow! That’s pretty steep. I hope I don’t have to spend that much to put my ACP-505 back into perfect working conditions.

fdonadio said:

Wow! That’s pretty steep. I hope I don’t have to spend that much to put my ACP-505 back into perfect working conditions.

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I called them and they said it shouldn't be much different than a typewriter platen, but I went and measured/photographed mine and sent the pics to them for a formal estimate. My ICP rollers are 18" x 3/4". I'll let you know what they say. He told me they still do roller work for Kodak so this is the right place.

Wayne said:

I called them

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Thank you very much for the help!

fdonadio said:

Thank you very much for the help!

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I also emailed pics and discussed my rollers at length. You will need to get an estimate based on your rollers because they sometimes have to make custom parts if they are odd sizes and such. But they stuck with the same general price range for my rollers, 70 to 80 bucks. I don't have any immediate plans to send mine in but its sure nice to know about this service. I thought my ICP was dead forever. Not sure how much I want to invest in it, I know it needs at least 4 rollers done and there are at least 6 more in it that I haven't even looked at in 15 years. if its only the 4, I'll probably do it. if the others have gone bad, or the machine has other problems if I test run it, probably not.

My ACP-505 has a handful of bad rollers, I’m sure. Everything else works great: pumps, heating, tubing (no leaks)...

crossposted from https://www.photrio.com/forum/threa...-reprinto-a-modern-durst-printo-clone.214150/

koraks said:

They're not in the photo business specifically. They just re-line rollers. Mostly for printers and copiers, it seems.

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Fair enough.

koraks said:

Then the business I was in touch with wasn't suitable for your purposes because as far as I can tell they don't give a hoot what those rollers are used for and they sure don't specialize in this particular niche (they'd have been dead long since if they had).

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I posted about a similar business, in this thread I am now crossposting to. I know a little more now than I did when I started the thread, so I'm no longer sure if they would be the best place for recoating. But I'm happy to open up my thread to the broader topic of roller sleeve specs. I still need to find out the exact specs needed for RA processing, which the platen company would not know. But they might be able to do it if I told them. But they are also a bit spendy, more along the lines of your revised estimate, which is why I am also interested in DIY alternatives. There are all sorts of sleeves and tubes and materials available that I was not aware of when I started this thread, but I still haven't nailed down one I want to spend money on.

koraks said:

Btw, I misremembered the price; they quoted me Eur 56 ex VAT per roller; this was 3 years ago. I didn't bother counting the rollers in both racks of an RCP20 because I know the end price would be way beyond my willingness to pay. I could have picked up at least one, probably two perfectly fine RCP's for the money spent on refurbishing one.
There are better (cheaper, easier, faster) options for refurbing those rollers; search on this forum and you'll find a link to a youtube proposing one particular concept, but there's others, too. A friend of mine did something with heat shrink tubing I think and that seems to be running fine as well.

Let's refocus this thread on @elgatosuizo project; if you want to start a new thread about relining existing rollers, please feel free to do so.

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Feel free to link any of that. Cheaper is always good, faster and easier not necessarily so. Doing it right is the most important thing (to me). I'm not sure shrink tubing is a great solution (for me...YMMV) which is why I posted my initial comment on the other thread trying to pin down OEM specs. Heat shrink has been around a long time. Why didn't Kodak and all the rest use it in their processors? Maybe they did and I just don't know it? Maybe it "works" (so does duct tape on a leaky hose) but I'd like a bit more to go on than anecdote before I consider it a reliable solution. I think hardness is an important consideration, for one, and I doubt that off the shelf heat shrink is going to match it. But I'm no engineer. I'm here to learn

Why not just check with an industrial supplier like McMaster Carr, or backtrack to their own sources? Their selection is amazing, along with their technical specs for every item, including chem resistance. I resorted to them when assembling my own roller devices.

Shrink tubing is generally a simple vinyl of questionable durability under such circumstances.

I sold my Thermaphot, so can't look in there anymore; but everything looked pretty straightforward in that respect. It's wise to have a good caliper for measuring rod and tubing diameters. I have an excellent Mitutoyo digital one, which goes from metric to decimal English readings with a push of a button.

DREW WILEY said:

Why not just check with an industrial supplier like McMaster Carr, or backtrack to their own sources? Their selection is amazing, along with their technical specs for every item, including chem resistance. I resorted to them when assembling my own roller devices.

Shrink tubing is generally a simple vinyl of questionable durability under such circumstances.

I sold my Thermaphot, so can't look in there anymore; but everything looked pretty straightforward in that respect. It's wise to have a good caliper for measuring rod and tubing diameters. I have an excellent Mitutoyo digital one, which goes from metric to decimal English readings with a push of a button.

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I've already checked with M-C. They were worthless and they won't even reveal who makes their materials.

There are many kinds of shrink tubing and many kinds of polyurethane.

It's pretty easy to find actual manufacturers these days using search engines. I'll admit I had certain advantages, due to a significant Industrial and Military sales office right next door to mine, with an extensive supply library. That also helped in the sense we had a track record of serious repurchasing clout, and I could often get things for personal use as "samples" even for free.

McMaster itself has somewhat changed. In the positive sense, anyone can buy from them even tiny purchases, provided they're willing to pay the stiff shipping. On the other hand, they have efficiency concerns, and don't want to be bothered with phone questions.

An analogous situation was in our own tool repair dept. We kept thousands of different O-rings in stock for sake of pneumatic tools. The exact type of rubber was critical in each case, and not just the size. Back then, factory Sales Reps were very well paid and expected to have serious product knowledge. Today, they're mostly entry-level gofers trying to get something on their resume before applying for a McDonald's French fry position (I'm sure McDonalds needs a lot of chemical-resistant valves and O-rings themselves!) Sorry for being facetious; but you get the point. Customer Service just ain't what it used to be.

DREW WILEY said:

It's pretty easy to find actual manufacturers these days using search engines. I'll admit I had certain advantages,

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Please show us your advantages. Show us the specs for RA roller sleeves, and the company currently manufacturing it. Someone with your advantages should be able to answer the question in no time. Certainly much faster than a dullard like me.

Wayne - the specs would be in relation to measurements and chemical resistance needs; one can't just give pat answers unless you're ordering replacements via a formal part number from the actual manufacturer or service branch as the processor itself. The sleeves and rollers I used in my own design processing equip won't be the same as you need. But I had little trouble finding them.

Just now, I typed in, "Chemical resistant shaft sleeves and rollers", on the search engine, and got pages worth of hits. All kinds of sources.

McMaster Carr has the positive angle of being willing to sell small quantities of things to anyone with a credit card; the disadvantage is that everyone pays the same high price in most instances, plus stiff shipping. Even if you discover their own sources, the relevant manufacturer might not sell directly to the public, or only on the premise of a substantial volume worth their time. When in doubt simply ask.

I was a professional buyer with all kinds of manufacturing connections for sake of actual distribution, including Govt/Military export, as well as to quite a variety of big local industries, including some of the biggest biotech and pharmaceutical plants in the world. That was indeed a giant advantage. But tracking specialized things down is far easier today due to search engines.

Half of my darkroom complex was built using free stuff, or nearly so. If I needed special tubing or a valve, I simply walked across the street to a big industrial pipe supplier who carried everything from 10 foot diameter chemical resistant drainage clear down to micropipette tubing used for medical and R&D purposes; they already knew me. If I needed a bombproof hypalon rubber coating, epoxy, or special kind of stainless steel, I just reached over to a nearby shelf. We had millions of dollars worth of that kind of thing in stock ourselves. I had many mfg connections in Japan, Germany, and all over the US. That was simply my job. I also had access to a very heavily equipped shop. If I needed some specialized power tool or other piece of equipment, I simply brought it home for the evening or weekend - that was part of my job too - seriously testing everything we sold, whether it be a machine or a new kind of caulking. All that kinda gave me a phD in Jerryrigging, how to improvise special things on a tight personal budget.

Yeah we know you're good at stuff. And we knew you wouldn't answer the question but would brag some more anyway lol.

McMaster Carr does not sell what I am looking for. Why are you still talking about them? I've talked to numerous other companies too, and am making progress. Far more than you are. Again, feel free to jump in and show me how its done.

Just now, I typed in, "Chemical resistant shaft sleeves and rollers", on the search engine, and got pages worth of hits. All kinds of sources.

Wow, that's genius. I sure wish I'd thought of that.

You are way behind me.

Moderator hat on.
Gentlemen: cut it out. The bickering back and forth will just mean that we will have to delete your posts and issue warnings.
And if you don't have anything helpful to actually suggest, don't post to the thread.

I'll use the ignore feature if this is how a valid hint get treated.

I used to go to my local public library and browse the Thomas Registry.
Great resource when researching American manufacturers.
They have a searchable website now: https://www.thomasnet.com/browse
You might get lucky here: https://www.thomasnet.com/browse/plastics-rubber-1.html

These guys.......